Interpretting new ISAT scores

August 30, 2013 at 5:24 pm 180 comments

Did anyone get their kids’ ISAT scores this week?  Our school handed them out and there are a lot of charts to see if your child hit the Common Core Exceeds/Meets//Below/Warning levels.

There is lots of detailed information by subject on how many questions the kid got right and where, how they compare to the school, the district, and the state.  And how they did on the new awesomely awesome measurement: Extended Writing.

What it does NOT seem to tell you is your child’s percentile.

I wondered if perhaps the percentile was given only for kids in the years applying to Academic Centers and High Schools (grades 5 and 7 when the test was taken) but a parent I know emailed to to say her child’s 5th grade scores didn’t have a percentile.

I checked the OAE site and don’t see anything mentioned yet about the admission rubric being revised for the Scale Scores that are given.

So I’m left wondering how to tell if your child has a decent shot at an Academic Center or even High School as the rubric previously used the percentiles.

This is the link that was referenced in the accompanying letter;

http://isbe.net/common_core/

I will write to OAE to see what they see, but was curious if anybody knows anything…

 

 

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What should public education be? PreK Update – How’s it Going?

180 Comments Add your own

  • 1. chicago mom  |  August 30, 2013 at 5:36 pm

    I have a 7th grader . I received the ISAT summary with no percentages. Waiting for the school to get back to me with the numbers.

  • 2. Mama Jess in the AP  |  August 30, 2013 at 5:37 pm

    An email from the PTA at Decatur states that the school has receive the percentiles and interested parents should contact the school office to get those numbers. Hope that helps!

  • 3. cpsobsessed  |  August 30, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    Thank you @Mama Jess! I’d imagine all 5th and 7th grade parents might be a bit curious….
    I’ve emailed OEA and will let you know what I hear also.

  • 4. HappyMom  |  August 30, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    called CPS today. 7th grade scores-332,99th-math, 300, 98th-reading, 291,98th science. Looks like she’s going to high school!

  • 5. HappyMom  |  August 30, 2013 at 5:49 pm

    (Found out by calling cps. Not entirely official, but somewhat)

  • 6. cpsobsessed  |  August 30, 2013 at 5:50 pm

    On another note, I had “the talk” with the son – the one explaining what Academic Centers are and that if he wants to go to one (we’ll go to the Lane Tech open house, I suppose) that he’d need to get very good grades this year.

    He didn’t have much to say, but didn’t say no, which I consider a triumph these days.

  • 7. cpsobsessed  |  August 30, 2013 at 5:53 pm

    @HappyMom, thanks for sharing. Wow, fantastic scores!

  • 8. Jill Andreu  |  August 30, 2013 at 5:53 pm

    My son is at the Taft Academic Center. We received an email over the summer that we could pick up preliminary results which turned our to be only the percentiles. This week, we received the full results but with with no “final” percentiles. My daughter is at Oriole Park and her 4th grade ISAT’s had no associated percentiles. I am also curios to find out if the overall scores went down with Core Standards as anticipated and how this will affect the point range for acceptance into Selective Enrollment high schools.

  • 9. SoxSideIrish4  |  August 30, 2013 at 6:00 pm

    I called ISBE today and they said only school will received percentile not students. You should have received percentiles on the preliminary~for ALL grades.

  • 10. SoxSideIrish4  |  August 30, 2013 at 6:05 pm

    Sorry, I meant I called CPS 2day not ISBE! And that the rubric will change but not until after all the kids test and then there will be dif cutoff scores.

  • 11. EastLoopMom  |  August 30, 2013 at 6:25 pm

    My apologies for going off topic. Principal Staral of Ogden International and Ogden Elementary has announced his resignation due to medical reasons as of 8/20/2013. I know his resignation comes among controversy, but the Ogden community is mourning this evening.

  • 12. TACandOPSMom  |  August 30, 2013 at 6:51 pm

    I am a bit confused. Entrance into SE high schools, Academic Centers, etc. depend on these percentiles. Why are they not automatically distributed to parents?

  • 13. chicago mom  |  August 30, 2013 at 8:22 pm

    Sox Side: All the kids have not tested yet?

  • 14. SoxSideIrish4  |  August 30, 2013 at 10:14 pm

    13. chicago mom | August 30, 2013 at 8:22 pm

    I’m sorry I was leaving as I was typing. I was writing abt the entrance exam…they have to wait to see who takes the entrance exam for the new cutoff scores.

  • 15. Chicago mom  |  August 30, 2013 at 11:37 pm

    Oh, yes that is correct. I am a wreck because my daughter got a B in 7th grade. We are tier 4 and it really makes it very difficult to get into SE. Want this year to be over. So sad because it just begun. What a bad system!

  • 16. SE Teacher  |  August 31, 2013 at 5:35 am

    @15 OK, so she got a B. Chances are not good for SE, but, geez…it is what it is. If you are a wreck, this can’t be good for her or her morael either, right? What is your neighborhood school? Check out its programs. See how you can get on the LSC. Contact the principal. Become part of the growing effort to help support neighborhood schools. Start now, you can make a difference.

  • 17. Veteran  |  August 31, 2013 at 8:48 am

    http://www.democracynow.org/2013/8/30/juan_gonzlez_growing_charter_school_chain

    This is about a parent of a kindergarten student at a charter school
    in New York who taped the school officials pressuring her to transfer her five year because they could not provide services. I have heard this repeatedly from parents who transfer their students into CPS. Kudos to this parent for taping it because the charters deny that they do this in order to keep scores up and expenses down.

  • 18. SoxSideIrish4  |  August 31, 2013 at 9:08 am

    15. Chicago mom | August 30, 2013 at 11:37 pm

    If your child did well on the ISATs, a B may not hurt. A lot of scores for ISATs went down, so the cutoff will have to play into that as well. I do think you should look at all SEHS, Magnets and your n’hood hs. Would you consider using the n’hood hs or is it not an option?

  • 19. In the know  |  August 31, 2013 at 9:20 am

    I posted this information a couple of times in other threads and no one seemed interested. A poster mentioned it and I went & did research on it and even gave the link from ISBE where for 2014 test there will be no percentiles what so ever! For this year Principals will have to print the preliminary letter out and give it to parents. Some schools don’t automatically give the prelim percentiles, you may have to ask. Also for this years 5th & 7th grade will OAE use only grades & the exam when they are in 6th & 8th…

    http://www.isbe.net/assessment/

    ISBE plans to map all items on the 2014 ISAT reading and mathematics assessments to Common Core State Standards (CCSS). The reading and mathematics assessments will be composed entirely of items written to CCSS.

    •The Stanford 10 component of the ISAT assessments will be removed from all ISAT assessments (reading, mathematics, and science). As a result, the information produced by the Stanford 10 assessments (NPR, National Quarters, Stanine, and Lexile Level) will not be available in 2014.
    •After the operational assessments are completed for the ISAT reading and mathematics assessments, the assessment division will be providing more specific details about the composition of the ISAT reading and math assessments. We expect to complete the operational test build in July of this year.

    The 2014 ISAT science assessments will be constructed using the existing science standards. However, the Stanford 10 portion of the assessments will be eliminated. The assessments will be constructed with items developed by Illinois educators.

    For the 2013 ISAT results, the Stanford 10 assessment results will not appear on any of the paper reports produced by Pearson. The Stanford 10 results will be present in the electronic files each school district receives.

    Should you have additional questions, please contact the Assessment Division at: 1-866-317-6034.

  • 20. LP  |  August 31, 2013 at 10:05 am

    @19 “Also for this years 5th & 7th grade will OAE use only grades & the exam when they are in 6th & 8th…”

    Which exam in 8th grade? The selective enrollment exam or will those grades do ISATs in the fall of next year?

  • 21. HS Mom  |  August 31, 2013 at 10:32 am

    This was on the selective prep website about issues with early testing for SE schools.

    http://selectiveprep.com/documents/thumbs/Early_Selective_Enrollment_Testing-Aug_1.pdf

  • 22. @20  |  August 31, 2013 at 10:54 am

    When this years 5 & 7th graders take the isat this year they will not take the sat 10s which give the percentiles. Therefore when they are in 6th & 8th and take the academic center & SE HS test they won’t have percentiles SO I wonder if it will be out of 600 points instead of 900 & only use grades and exam.

  • 23. CPSMom  |  August 31, 2013 at 12:48 pm

    I have a child who entered Lane’s AC this year, and am more than happy and willing to talk about our experiences as we progress through the year, if anyone is interested (I have a 6th grader who will be going through the process soon.).

  • 24. lawmom  |  August 31, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    I had a meeting with my child’s teacher yesterday (7th grade). I asked about the ISAT scores — when I would receive them. The teacher said they should be given out any day and that the principal distributed a spreadsheet with the scores. She gave me my child’s score. I haven’t seen any paperwork yet, but you should be able to get the scores from your homeroom teacher.

  • 25. anonymouse teacher  |  August 31, 2013 at 5:32 pm

    My school got our ISAT scores, though I don’t think they’ve been given out to students. We improved significantly in every area. We generally tend to improve each year anyways, but it was greater this year.

  • 26. IB obsessed  |  August 31, 2013 at 7:17 pm

    I am bewildered. The 2014 ISATs will not be scored with a national percentile according to what I’ve read here. So will no percentiles at all be given? Or will the percentile be based upon ……what? Will only raw scores be given? How will this affect 7th graders when they apply to SEHs? Will the point system be changed?

  • 27. IB obsessed  |  August 31, 2013 at 7:25 pm

    @15 and @16. One of my 7th graders teachers spent an entire double class period this week discussing how crucial their test scores this year for admission to a “good high school” and giving them material on the transition to HS. My opinion of this teacher has just plummeted. Wouldn’t beginning to cover some material have been more productive than stressing out the 12 year olds?

  • 28. Mom of 3  |  August 31, 2013 at 10:18 pm

    @27 I’m sorry. No 12 year old should stress out about anything. The pressure to “succeed” on tests has become alarming in CPS at all levels. But it shouldn’t get anywhere near children.

  • 29. SoxSideIrish4  |  August 31, 2013 at 10:37 pm

    27. IB obsessed | August 31, 2013 at 7:25 pm

    I’m sorry that happened. I don’t think any 12 yr old or any kid should be stressed re: high stake tests. I would talk to that teacher and also the principal. Instructing lessons would have been much more beneficial for all the kids.

  • 30. Nside Dave  |  September 1, 2013 at 12:34 am

    “The pressure to “succeed” on tests has become alarming”

    Its called life. The sooner a kid learns how important grades and tests are the better. Competition and pressure is good. Schools have gotten too soft over the years and the US is paying for it with kids unable to achieve in the world as well as in the past.

    That teacher couldn’t have stressed out my kids any more than i have. And they have scored 99th percentiles consistently. We have gone private for high school and the competition is even higher. Now to get them ready for the ACTs…36s here we come!

  • 31. CarolA  |  September 1, 2013 at 6:59 am

    Nside Dave: I cringe when I read posts like that. Provide the right atmosphere, the right questions, the right challenges, and kids will be excited to learn on their own. Provide the right “outside” activities and you’ll have a well-rounded child. No need to stress anyone out. This has gotten WAY out of control. I see far too many students who are STRESSED OUT in FIRST GRADE! You’d be surprised at how many kids don’t know how to have fun anymore. Other than a video game, they have no clue how to entertain themselves. That could lead to some damaging behavior as they get older (and it has). Don’t let me mislead you. There’s nothing wrong about having high expectations. I have VERY high expectations for my students. HOWEVER, you can have high expectations WITHOUT the extra stress of ACHIEVE OR ELSE or worse yet….unnecessary competition.

  • 32. SoxSideIrish4  |  September 1, 2013 at 7:46 am

    30. Nside Dave | September 1, 2013 at 12:34 am

    My kids’ friends are in private and parochial high schools (along w/CPS) and just from speaking w/them~I don’t think any of them are stressed out or feel like they are competing on too high of a level (although w/boys, sometimes everything is a competition). I feel sorry for your kids just reading your post that you are the stress in their lives. They’ll go on to college w/out the pressure of a perfect ACT score.

  • 33. Amy  |  September 1, 2013 at 8:38 am

    Getting back to the thread. I cant believe that CPS’ way of handling this is to have thousand of parents bombarded overtaxed teachers and school administrators for their kids percentile scores! And it won’t be just the parents of 6th and 8th graders. CPS has put such ridiculous significance on the SAT 10 scores that until they effectively message what is happening with those scores parents from 3rd grade up will be clamor ing for info.

  • 34. HS Mom  |  September 1, 2013 at 8:44 am

    @27 – I’m sorry but I have to agree that a concerned teacher will convey the importance of grades and testing early on in 7th grade. It is a reality that you need good grades to get into a good school in Chicago (even those programs outside of SE). The best way to do that is to start day one (better yet in the summer). I think the teacher who supports kids day one in their educational endeavors perceived as pressuring might be misconstrued. As pointed out, kids go into 7th grade feeling the pressure. Having someone “lay it on the line” is what’s needed as long as the expectations, support and reassurances that the school will work with families is conveyed along with that. This first week, given that we already have a holiday day is the perfect time to use to get kids motivated and on track.

  • 35. HS Mom  |  September 1, 2013 at 8:46 am

    To add – I wonder how many 7th grade parents would light up this board and others with complaints about teachers ignoring the fact that HS’s need good grades and about how they don’t work with realities in mind?

  • 36. IB obsessed  |  September 1, 2013 at 9:32 am

    A 10 minute talk from the teacher about the consequences of scoring well and making good grades would suffice. Devoting an entire double class period is sending the message that test scores are the purpose of learning. The tail is wagging the dog.Testing in public education has evolved from a being a measurement of learning to being treated as an end in itself. Instill a love of learning and good study habits, and you get a life long learner who does well when the external validation of test scores and an applauding audience are no longer there.

    The only circumstance where it would seem appropriate would be in a school where the majority of students come from homes where education is not a priority or not highly valued. Our school does not fit that description.

    Being made to feel that your future success and happiness depend upon scoring in the very superior,99th %tile range, is not age appropriate stress for a 12 year old, nor does it prepare them to have a healthy, realistic view of life.

  • 37. HS Mom  |  September 1, 2013 at 10:23 am

    @36 Point taken. We had the first year of the new admissions system which has since evolved and looks like it’s still changing. It was/is very frustrating for parents who try to pursue certain schools and plan accordingly. I always felt that it was good to aim high as long as you meaningfully go through the necessary preparation and get your child on board with a plan B. Pressure alleviated. School is still the main component for most people along with the support. IMO 10 minute pep talk is not enough. I do feel that people will be divided on this depending on their goals and individual situation.

  • 38. HScoming  |  September 1, 2013 at 2:47 pm

    Also….has anyone brought up the huge disparity between the new CCSS aligned ISAT (much harder) and the Terra Nova/Iowa/Individually administered achievement tests that non CPS students take?
    We aren’t even comparing apples and apples..

  • 39. Chicago mom  |  September 1, 2013 at 3:09 pm

    Great point HS coming. Every student takes same SE test and all students should take same ISAT test. Private school kids luck out!

  • 40. North Center Mom  |  September 1, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    @38 and @39 It was only a matter of time before some CPS-enrolled family bellyached about the “luck” private school students have because of the new ISAT scoring. To you I say: Ha! Ha! HA! None of you complained too much over the previous years when our private school kids had to take a nationally normed test than the very-easy ISAT test. After living in Chicago and paying property taxes in Chicago for 20 years, our children should have been able to walk right into our neighborhood school during test week to take the ISAT test. But no. The OAE rules say that if our school’s test is one of the approved tests, then that is the score that should be submitted. And our principal complied.

    One top of that, what is an “A”? I contend that my child’s private school A represents far superior work over the vast majority of CPS school’s A’s.

    The system is imperfect in myriad ways. Now it’s your turn to experience this particular downside.

  • 41. North Center Mom  |  September 1, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    on*

  • 42. IB obsessed  |  September 1, 2013 at 3:39 pm

    HScoming can you explain that not apples to apples comment? How are they that different? You mean harder or easier? I have heard both opinions about the Terra Nova and the IOWA. Any educators who have experience with both the ISAT and Terra Nova and/or IOWA want to weigh in here?

  • 43. IB obsessed  |  September 1, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    @40 NC Mom, the first 10 questions of the ISATS, known as the SAT 10 are nationally normed. How do you know the private school standardized tests are easier?

  • 44. Chicago mom  |  September 1, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    Private school kids were always allowed to use ISAT sores. They got to pick which score they like better. Cps kids did not have that option. You seem very bitter.

  • 45. North Center Mom  |  September 1, 2013 at 4:20 pm

    @44 You are wrong. Read the OAE website faq’s.

  • 46. Chicago mom  |  September 1, 2013 at 4:26 pm

    I am not wrong.

  • 47. @43  |  September 1, 2013 at 4:41 pm

    It’s not the first 10 questions of the isat that contain the sat 10s it’s the first 30 questions of reading & math. This year the sat 10 will not be on the isat. Hence, no percentiles…

  • 48. Family Friend  |  September 1, 2013 at 4:58 pm

    @17 Veteran — I have to defend my charter school (I’m on the board), Amandla, in Englewood. I know some charters “counsel out” problem kids, but at Amandla, nearly 20% of our students have IEPs, and even though we had fewer than 300 students last year, we had enough severely learning disabled (is that the right term?) students to have a separate full-time SPED classroom. ALL of our students are doing very well, and our Executive Director was one of only six high school principals to receive an award from CPS last month — hers was specifically linked to student growth. We start our students in fifth grade, and our first class (now entering 10th grade) came to us an average of two and a half years behind in math and language arts, and finished 8th grade four years later an average of two years ahead in math and two and a half years ahead in language art. Our second class, which just finished 8th grade, did even better. BTW, about 17% of our students qualify for homeless services.

  • 49. Veteran  |  September 1, 2013 at 5:01 pm

    Catholic High Schools have had entrance exams for years.

    Selective enrollment schools have entrance exams.

    Grades can be inflated and standardized tests are not all created equal nor is the administration of the test always given within the testing guidelines.

    I think it is fair/valid that all student admission to selective enrollment high schools be weighed heavily on the entrance exam scores. The grades, behavior, attendance and IEP information can be looked at on an individual basis.

  • 50. Family Friend  |  September 1, 2013 at 5:12 pm

    cpso: Going pack to your original post: How can your school give you Common Core levels? Common Core are standards, and the old Illinois standards — the ones the ISAT was testing — are very different. ISBE changed the cutoffs for meets/exceeds to mitigate the sticker shock that parents will feel when the test is pegged to a meaningful standard, but for the school to suggest that the ISAT scores somehow suggest whether students will meet Common Core standards seems off to me.

  • 51. Veteran  |  September 1, 2013 at 5:34 pm

    #48 Congratulations! As a long time sped teacher I am amazed at your post. I will have to look up Amandla’s stats/data on the ISBE 2013 report card and Great Schools site. This would be useful information for teachers and parents in the Englewood area. I am happy that your school actually has a certified teacher of disabilities on your full time staff. I am assuming that the 60 students you refer to, have IEPs.

  • 52. HScoming  |  September 1, 2013 at 6:11 pm

    North Center Mom:

    You do know that there is a new 3rd Edition Terra Nova Common Core Aligned assessment? I’m sure many private schools will adopt it. Maybe your school already has. It’s harder.

    For CPS, it’s the last year for ISAT. Next year is the PARCC assessment which is entirely different. This year’s ISAT content will be 100% aligned to the CCSS, yet many schools have not finished aligning their curriculum to the CCSS. I have been an educator for plus 20 years in the suburbs and the teachers are working tirelessly to align their curriculum to the CCSS…but the new test is here regardless. This isn’t about private vs public…it’s about creating a fair (and as equal as possible) entrance criteria for all kids. Maybe CPS should give the entrance exam more weight…although I wouldn’t be surprised if that isn’t changed soon by CPS to reflect the CCSS.

    I like this forum because we can bounce ideas and thoughts back and forth. I learn a ton of stuff from everyone. It’s no fun being attacked.

  • 53. Family Friend  |  September 1, 2013 at 6:29 pm

    @51 Veteran: All of our teachers are certified, and we have several certified SPED teachers as well as a full-time SPED manager who is also a certified SPED teacher. Our school was founded by several teachers from Robeson, who said, “there has to be a better way.” How many times have you and your colleagues wondered the same thing? This is where they ended up. We would very much like for teachers and parents in Englewood and nearby communities to know about what we offer, especially because we are opening our high school classes to new students beginning this year.

    A warning about the 2013 report card: our total number of students meeting and exceeding standards on the ISAT is low, because we have a new group of fifth graders every year, and we don’t make all that progress in a single year. But anyone who sees our classes in action comes away impressed, and our students are getting noticed.

  • 54. cpsobsessed  |  September 1, 2013 at 7:51 pm

    The “word on the street” is that kids tend to score better on the ISATs than the private school test (Terra Nova?). If that wasn’t true, let’s face it, parents wouldn’t make the effort to have their kids take 2 tests.
    My private school friend said her child did worse on the ISATs so it’s certainly not a sure thing.

    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

  • 55. cpsobsessed  |  September 1, 2013 at 8:00 pm

    @HS mom – hm, I’m not sure how I feel about a teacher taking the role of stressing 7th grade performance as being important for HS admission.
    I feel like that’s more of a family decision and implies that SEHS is vital (I know it is, in reality for many families — I just like to entertain the dream of good neighborhood schools.)

    On the other hand, in schools where kids and families don’t know about the options I suppose it’s a good idea. I was shocked several years ago to find that our neighborhood school hadn’t even discussed it with the 8th graders.
    So I guess maybe I DO think it should be brought up and coached a little…

    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

  • 56. HS Mom  |  September 1, 2013 at 8:57 pm

    @55 CPSO I guess it would all depend upon whether you view discussing the importance of grades/tests and preparing kids for the transition to HS as stressful.

  • 57. IB obsessed  |  September 1, 2013 at 11:48 pm

    I guess it depends on what is said and the tone taken. Being told you must score 99th percentile in order to get into a good HS is stressful. I didn’t read anyone here objecting to discussing the importance of grades/tests or it being brought up and coached a little.

  • 58. IB obsessed  |  September 1, 2013 at 11:58 pm

    @54 To add one more antecdotal experience I know one private school kid who took ISATs this year and scored well above what they scored on IOWAs the year before (like 20 percentile points). Either they had phenomenal academic gains this year or the ISAT was easier. I was looking forward to comparing my kid’s scores this year. Darn.

    But how will this affect the HS admissions????? Will they just use raw scores????

  • 59. @58  |  September 2, 2013 at 1:03 am

    Who knows what they will use?!? They don’t have to even figure it out this year because the 6th & 8th graders have percentiles this year! What cps needs to figure out it the promotion policy for grades 3,7 & 8. One criteria was scoring over the 24th percentile so now will it just be a grade of C or better in reading or math???

  • 60. Iheoma  |  September 2, 2013 at 7:23 am

    @CPSO and HSmom – I definately see both of your points. The level of stress caused by the CPS SEHS admission game is crazy and really should not be placed on kids in a way that makes them feel powerless and without hope. Maybe the teacher could have emphasized that earning in the 99th percentile and earning straight A’s gives them the most choices rather than furthering the misconception that the only SEHS worth attending are those that require that level of perfection. When accomplished students plan for college they look at a range of schools. The same things should happen for accomplished 7th graders. To me, the narrowness of the discussion is what causes the stress a strong teacher and guidance counselor should have been able to lead that type of discussion with the kids rather than just stressing them out with information.

    That said, I too was appalled to learn that my kid’s elementary school – which was stellar in many ways – did not discuss anything with kids about the choices they had post grammar school and the role they needed to play to get there. There was a PTA meeting for parents run by the counselor and CPS OES but nothing student specific. If these are kids smart enough to attend an SEHS or AC they need age-appropriate information to play a role in the decision making and planning for it.

  • 61. Lasse  |  September 2, 2013 at 9:11 am

    As a veteran CPS teacher and the father of an eighth grader, I’m beyond stressed. My boy had all A’s in 7th and his preliminary ISAT scores have him as 92/86/90 not his best but it’s a snapshot…I’ll find out his actual percentiles this week. He (we?!) want Jones and fortunately we live close by. We plan on applying to the Pre-Law/Pre-Engineering program for Jones neighborhood residents first, complete an expensive tutoring program which starts in October, then take the Selective Enrollment test.

    Is there any way to determine the number of locals applying for the neighborhood program at Jones? He clearly meets the minimum requirements…but we cant rest on our laurels.

    What are the advantages to taking the test in October? What angles do I need to cover?

  • 62. anonymouse teacher  |  September 2, 2013 at 9:48 am

    I know some elementary schools that start telling kids in 2nd and 3rd grade if there grades and test scores aren’t good enough, they won’t be going to a good high school. This happened to my daughter’s best friend who still attends the highly regarded magnet school that my children used to attend.

  • 63. cpsobsessed  |  September 2, 2013 at 9:56 am

    I don’t like the idea of stressing kids out about it, but I do think there’s a natural range for kids and possibly pushing them a little bit to strive to do well is a good idea for some kids.

    I have a friend with a really over-achieving son at Evanston HS and it was truly within this kid’s range to aim for a 35/36 ACT score and I know the Dad helped motivated him and the kid really wanted to do it. He didn’t quite get there and it was fine, but there was healthy encouragement. If I tried to push my son to that level it would be stressful because it’s probably not in his range nor his personality style. But for 7th grade I envision being a little more on top of than my usual “just do your best” philisophy. I think. I guess if we determine that SEHS or IB is not the way for him to go then I think his best will suffice.

    As for teachers, I think if that’s the only resource a child has to learn about school options, it makes sense to inform them and see if anyone responds to the idea – and perhaps pushing those kids a little? It certainly doesn’t make sense to push every kid in a neighborhood classroom to strive for SEHS, does it?

  • 64. SoxSideIrish4  |  September 2, 2013 at 10:05 am

    63. cpsobsessed | September 2, 2013 at 9:56 am

    Do you think your son will try for an A/C or will you just wait for HS b4 testing?

  • 65. Veteran  |  September 2, 2013 at 10:14 am

    Promotion policy? This is a real sore point with me. We have children in sped with a 24%. Grade inflation is rampant in CPS and until administrators start addressing this issue at the individual teacher evaluations nothing will change. Here’s an example: eight children do not make the ISAT cut score yet have report cards full of Bs and Cs-their previous ISAT scores and MAP scores are low so it is not test anxiety or a “bad test day” yet the teachers who have this BRIDGE grade keep repeating this scenario year after year-no consequences for totally ignoring grade fidelity-parents are in shock and are now mistrustful of all of us. BTW this is at a school with high ISAT scores……

    Since the inception of the BRIDGE Program at my school I know of only two children who were retained upon completion of the program. One was a child who was in the 4% and another was failed for poor attendance in the BRIDGE.

    CPS doesn’t follow its own promotion policy. We have been told we can not fail a child unless it is a BRIDGE year. This is utter nonsense!
    Sometimes children may need an extra year in Grades 1 or 2- sometimes it is simple maturation, no prior school experience or late birthday issues. Early intervention is key not failing an eighth grader when records show he’s been struggling since first grade.

  • 66. cpsobsessed  |  September 2, 2013 at 10:17 am

    I’m going to take him to the Lane Tech open house to see if it inspires something in. I know of 2 kids going there this year and the parents both say they’re kids are SO excited about it. I can’t see him being that kind of kid. But I want to see his reaction.

    I don’t know that he’d get in unless he realllly pushed (and then not sure if ISATs will be quite high enough) AND we’re very happy with his current school so I think the preference will be to stay there through 8th grade. But I’m sure a fair number of kids in his class will be applying to and going to ACs so I want him to know what it’s all about. If Lane tech intrigues him, I’ll help him push “his best” this year. But my guess is he’d prefer his current school given that he likes things that are comfortable and familiar. (This is why I get hives thinking about high school.)

  • 67. HS Mom  |  September 2, 2013 at 5:42 pm

    257 “I guess it depends on what is said and the tone taken.”

    Yes, true

    Our school prided itself on “100% placement” meaning the kids went to SE, private, charter or special programs like Lincoln Park/Curie Metro etc. They did not stress perfect scores at all but tried to get all kids high scoring and attentive to their grades to qualify for something. Parents in general were in agreement with that strategy and some very dependent upon the schools guidance. Most people really don’t know how to navigate the system or understand what’s required.

  • 68. HS Mom  |  September 2, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    @60 – yes, perfectly stated

  • […] Interpreting new ISAT scores CPSObsessed: Did anyone get their kids’ ISAT scores this week?  Our school handed them out and there are a lot of charts to see if your child hit the Common Core Exceeds/Meets//Below/Warning levels. MISC Union bosses fail working people they claim to help Chicago Sun-Times: And when Chicago Public Schools, or CPS, started the new school year, it did so with about 3,000 fewer Chicago Teachers Union, or CTU, workers. […]

  • 70. Mayfair Dad  |  September 3, 2013 at 11:37 am

    @cpso: why not take a tour of Disney II? Admission into seventh grade guarantees a spot through 12th grade. Smaller school might be less intimidating. Nothing wrong with Lane Tech but a school with 4,500+ students may not be for everybody.

  • 71. cpsobsessed  |  September 3, 2013 at 12:17 pm

    that’s a great idea MFD, I’ve been wanting to visit the school anyhow. I’ve lost track though – are the 7th graders at the HS location? (3900 N Lawndale) or the elem building (3815 Kedvale).

    Based on how homework went last night I think the ACs are a pipe dream. I always think of your “riding his butt on homework” goal, MFD — and you know, it can only go so far unless the kid is of a certain ilk.

    Not to shortchange my son – he did some good work last night, but there was a full 30+ minutes of discussion before a pencil was even picked up. I need a Tigermom training course.

  • 72. RL Julia  |  September 3, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    You might check out Taft as well. I really liked their AC’s curriculum. It was the right amount of hard and not so hard – also the kids take a lot of classes (gym/art, computers and a language pretty much every day – gym and art are every other day).

  • 73. cpsobsessed  |  September 3, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    *******************************************************************
    REPLY from OAE:

    According to the Department of Student Assessment, the percentiles are contained in the parent letter. If parents received ISAT information that does not show the percentile rank, they should ask their child’s school to print out a copy of the parent letter.

    There has been no change in the rubric or the requirements.

    **********************************************************************

  • 74. cpsobsessed  |  September 3, 2013 at 2:19 pm

    Did anyone get the “parent letter?” I got a letter with explanation but nothing mentioning percentiles.
    So it looks like the plan will be the same as in previous years, you just need to request the percentile from the school.

  • 75. SAT10annoyed  |  September 3, 2013 at 2:25 pm

    @73, very interesting. I don’t know a single family that received the % scores. We are at Coonley. And how about that earlier posting where CPS told the parent that no one was supposed to receive them and that you had to ask the school. Not surprised that CPS is talking out of both sides of its mouth.. Who at OAE gave you that info? Can other folks post their schools and say whether or not they received them?

  • 76. educator  |  September 3, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    The information below may be helpful regarding the 2013 ISAT scores and the percentile rankings that are mysteriously missing on the ISAT individual student reports that went home (much to the dismay of many sixth and eighth grade parents – myself included).

    The National Percentile Rating (NPR) was not on this year’s printed ISAT reports because the ranking (due to changes in the 2013 ISAT), in some cases, presents a different picture of student performance than the overall ISAT score and category (meets, exceeds, etc.). As previously mentioned, the NPR is based on something called the SAT10, 30 multiple choice questions embedded in the ISATs that is a norm-referenced test (like the GRE & SAT). The remainder of the ISATs are criterion-based assessments which set a predetermined level of acceptable performace and students pass or fail at that level.

    As previous comments have indicated, ISBE raised the cut scores on the 2013 ISATs to give everyone a more accurate indicator of college readiness and to prepare for new assessment system in 2014-15 that are being developed now and will be completely aligned to the Common Core Learning Standards.

    The reason ISBE did not report the percentiles (based on SAT10) on this year’s ISAT reports is that there are a number of students in the state that would have received a do-not-meets score on the ISAT, but would have received an NPR that would indicate the student should not be in that reporting category (probably with a higher than expected percentile when compared with the overall ISAT score). Again, the ISAT and SAT10 âre two different types of assessments and they always have been, but this year their results appear even more different in the context of the higher ISAT cut scores. Though ISBE took it off the print score report, they still provided the individual student scores to school districts in electronic format. So you can get the percentile ranking from the school by requesting it. The percentile ranking (not the ISAT score) is what is used in academic center or selective high school selection.

    The SAT10 was not impacted by the raised ISAT cut scores; again, it is a separate test within a test. So it would seem to be good news for 6th and 8th graders who need the highest percentile possible for their top choice of academic center or SEHS.

    I hope this is helpful.

  • 77. cpsobsessed  |  September 3, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    Karen Hansberry replied to my email and she seems to be consistently correct with information. Although in this case it seems odd that nobody seems to have gotten the %s. I inquired on Facebook to see if anyone I know reports having gotten them, as it seems like OAE is not aware of them not being routinely passed out (or maybe a few schools didn’t do it — trying to find that out.)

  • 78. educator  |  September 3, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    @77 – there definitely not on the reports this year due to the reasons in my comment above. You can request the percentiles from the school if you want to know them. Again the percentile refers to the SAT10 nationally normed test within the ISAT and the ISAT score and meets, exceeds, etc. refers to the ISAT.

  • 79. educator  |  September 3, 2013 at 2:41 pm

    sorry for the grammatical error – They’re (geez)

  • 80. cpsobsessed  |  September 3, 2013 at 2:48 pm

    Friend of mine reports that her school was told percentiles would be passed out this week at their school.

  • 81. cpsobsessed  |  September 3, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    @ Educator – thanks very much! I’m sure it will make sense when I read it 5 more times. 🙂
    But yes, what you say makes sense about why CPS will be reporting percentiles separately from the actual ISAT scores.

  • 82. TACandOPSMom  |  September 3, 2013 at 2:50 pm

    Thanks for posting this info. While this may be good news for 6th and 8th graders, is this the best measure for entrance into SE’s and AC’s? Also, if the SAT10 percentiles are still being used to determine entrance, then this information should be given to every student without having to ask. As with everything related to SE’s, I find it a bit ridiculous. Keeping track of all if this is a full-time job.

  • 83. educator  |  September 3, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    @ cpsobsessed sorry if it was confusing

    @82 I think to be fair to OAE, CPS may not have been aware that ISBE was not going to print the national percentiles as they always have on the ISAT report. I think CPS and OAE are well aware that parents need percentile info and I’m guessing this mistake won’t be made again even if it means schools are instructed to print out two separate reports for families. When I called OAE the day after the reports came home, the woman was very surprised that the percentile information was missing and very helpful about how I could contact the school to access my children’s percentiles.

    I guess regarding whether SAT10 percentiles are a better measure for SEs and ACs, that’s up for debate. In a way it seems better to base it on a nationally normed test, especially considering that ISAT will be changing significantly each year from now until 2015. If New York is any barometer with 29% of the state’s students meeting expectations on their 2013 state test which is more aligned to Common Core, perhaps SAT10 is a better way to go. With such high stakes attached to percentiles for CPS entrance to AC and SEHS, I’d like to avoid using a test that is significantly changing each year from 2013 to 2014 to 2015 and one that only has the capacity to lower my kids’ overall score – though I admit that’s myopic.

  • 84. cpsobsessed  |  September 3, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    Oh, not confusing.. I just have never fully mentally processed this SAT10 thing so I need to sit and get that in my head.

  • 85. cpsobsessed  |  September 3, 2013 at 3:17 pm

    So is the percentile that people get a national or local percentile?

  • 86. Rod Estvan  |  September 3, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    According to the CPS data site Amandla Charter High School in 2013 had 13.50% students with IEPs not 20% as was claimed in the post by Family Friend.

    See http://www.cps.edu/SchoolData/Pages/SchoolData.aspx go to reports “Limited English Proficiency, Special Ed, Low Income, IEP school year 2012-2013”

    The ISBE report card for Amandla for 2012 listed the IEP percentage as 14.2%.

    For a school in Englewood that is not a high percentage and it is less than 1% higher the statewide average for the percentage of students IEPs in all schools in the state.

    Rod Estvan

  • 87. Chris  |  September 3, 2013 at 3:55 pm

    “a test that is significantly changing each year from 2013 to 2014 to 2015 and one that only has the capacity to lower my kids’ overall score”

    But if one considers the optics, from CPS’s perspective, having lower scores on one component is *good*. If it becomes the case that a T4 kid with 4 As and a max score on the SE exam can get into Payton/NSCP with “only” a 95/95 on the 7th grade tests (and thus a total of “only” 888), that looks better to the typical person.

  • 88. educator  |  September 3, 2013 at 4:07 pm

    @85 the percentile is a nationally normed percentile – not local. This would seem to indicate that the percentile should have higher validity (normed against more students across the nation) versus the ISAT (only given to Illinois students). The confusing part is the SAT10 is inside the ISAT so to the average person (and student), it’s the ISAT hence the confusion. The “SAT10” is 30 questions of the ISAT that are also embedded in other state tests given across the nation so it can be normed nationally and used for comparison.

  • 89. SAT10annoyed  |  September 3, 2013 at 5:28 pm

    Not suprised that ISBE and CPS didn’t communicate. Everyone here will be able to get their kids scores and in the process will be creating a lot of extra leg work for themselves and overtaxed teachers and school administrators. But for families that don’t understand the system and don’t understand what they should be asking for and are maybe just looking at the overall ISAT score–those parents may not even realize that they have a child that could get accepted to a selective school. We need to be doing more, not less, for those families.

  • 90. cpsobsessed  |  September 3, 2013 at 5:36 pm

    I think I’m starting to get the SAT10. But if it’s embedded in other tests, I’d think the private school kids would/should have a score to use for SEHS admission.

    Also, for a national norm, kids will still rank the same no matter what the goals for “exceeds etc” are. The top 1 percent of kids will still be the top 1 percent.
    So I don’t see percentiles changing – unless I’m missing something.

    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

  • 91. Family Friend  |  September 3, 2013 at 6:02 pm

    Every year I am upset all over again that high school options are more or less divided between “your child must be outstanding to attend” and “non-outstanding kids will get a seriously substandard education here.” Things are starting to change, but the pace is glacial — it’s the old dilemma: I support public education but am I willing to offer my child up on the altar of “beginning to change”? And if parents make the best choice for their children, that ensures that the pace will continue to be slow! I like the parents in Logan Square who are working to improve Brentano elementary school before their kids are old enough for school. I suspect they will do the same for high schools as their kids get older. There is a lot of commitment on this site — is it possible that parents of first through fourth graders could get together to work on a neighborhood school (Lakeview comes to mind as one that is both geographically convenient to many parents and already beginning to change)? What would it take? How could what the parents at Brentano are doing be translated to high school?

  • 92. Angie  |  September 3, 2013 at 6:14 pm

    @86. Rod Estvan: FWIW, CPS Find A School page lists Amandla SPED numbers at 18.6%. Why is it so different?

    Also, to get the whole story, I suggest sorting that Excel file by SPED percentage in schools.

    When sorted from lowest to highest number, Amandla is #446 out of 683, and a whole lot of public schools are worse than that when it comes to serving students with disabilities. McDade is #1 with the lowest SPED percentage at 2.55%, and Poe is right behind it with 3.11%. OK, so both of these are selective enrollment, which can explain it. But STEM is a lottery school. What’s their excuse for 3.77%? What was Delano’s for having just 5.06% SPED students?

    This report should finally put the myth about public schools having much higher percentage of SPED students to rest.

  • 93. SoxSideIrish4  |  September 3, 2013 at 6:18 pm

    91. Family Friend | September 3, 2013 at 6:02 pm

    HS are a whole other animal. I’ve seen several elem schools on the North/SouthSide change~it’s completely different at the hs level.

  • 94. cpsobsessed  |  September 3, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    From my son’ teacher today. We had 1 parent ask her about sending them out to avoid repeat requests:

    Why they were left off the ISAT sheets you received, I cannot answer. I can say however that they are not a secret and you are welcome to see them. I will send them home with your child in a sealed envelope by the end of the week.

    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

  • 95. Veteran  |  September 3, 2013 at 7:49 pm

    Illinois : Charter Schools (2005) Charter schools may employ non-certified teachers if they have a bachelor’s degree, five years’ experience in the area of degree, a passing score on state teacher tests and evidence of professional growth. Mentoring must be provided to uncertified teachers. Beginning with the 2006-07 school year, at least 50% of the individuals employed in instructional positions by a charter school in Chicago established after April 16, 2003, shall hold teaching certificates and 75% of the individuals employed in instructional positions by a charter school in Chicago established before April 16, 2003, shall hold teaching certificates.

    Maybe this is why charters do not keep students with disabilities and why they “counsel out” those students who may need an evaluation to determine if the child has a disability.

    At my school we have students who have moved into our attendance area and have attended various charter schools who are 3-4 years behind and should have been referred for services in the primary grades. We do it….but come on, sixth grade is a little late to tell a parent that the reason why their child can’t read at level is due to a learning disability. We have other parents who come in and say the charter school staff told them to come to our school because we have programs to help children who are behind-why this is done when the child is older I have no clue. I feel bad for these parents…… some of them were told that their child was behind due to being bilingual.

    If they have no certified sped staff which is very probable seeing as it is a shortage area they cannot complete MDC/IEPs, deliver services or receive the state reimbursement.
    If the charter is full they may counsel out but if the charter is looking for students I can see why the sped population may be higher because they are taking in those students already identified as sped in order to keep the school open.

    In high crime areas the sped students are more likely to become victimized and a well run/structured charter that can keep out the gang bangers is a blessing for students with disabilities.

  • 96. local  |  September 3, 2013 at 8:25 pm

    Somewhat related, by Rod Estvan in comments at District 299 blog: http://www.chicagonow.com/district-299-chicago-public-schools-blog/2013/09/one-rating-system-for-everyone/#comment-21743

  • 97. IB obsessed  |  September 3, 2013 at 11:40 pm

    It’s clear now that percentiles were calculated for ISATs taken year 12/13, and are available to parents, just not shown on the student ISAT report. But IF what @19 above says is fact, there will be NO nationally normed percentile calculated at all for this years 13/14 ISAT. So again, what will be used to replace the points given for ISAT percentile score for this years 7th graders’ SEHS admissions? The raw score on the new common core aligned ISAT? I clicked on the ISBE link in @19’s post, but could not find a statement about nationally normed %tiles not being calculated for 13/14 ISAT.

  • 98. Rod Estvan  |  September 4, 2013 at 7:20 am

    Re Angie post. Access Living is fully aware that there are both traditional schools and charter schools with lower percentages of students with IEPs. We have an extensive data base of on that issue that also includes LRE placement codes. My comment was limited to only one claim of a 20% IEP ratio.

    Statistically the greater the poverty of a community the greater percentage of children are born with low birth weights. In the research the correlation between low birth weight and special education identification is high. Access Living also watches these types of health statistics using community mapping software. We were given funds to do this type of work by donors.

    My comment on the particular charter school should not be taken as an ideological attack on charter schools. There are complex issues relating to charter schools and special education. As some of you may be aware I have even spoken to charter school conferences about these issues.

    Rod Estvan

  • 99. Veteran  |  September 4, 2013 at 7:44 am

    Thank-you Rod for your advocacy for children with disabilities. You continue to be a valuable resource for teachers and parents.

  • 100. Family Friend  |  September 4, 2013 at 10:09 am

    @86 Rod Estvan: Rod, I apologize. I was adding in the kids with 504 plans.

  • 101. Family Friend  |  September 4, 2013 at 10:17 am

    @95 Veteran: charter schools may certainly employ teachers who are not certified — up to 25% of the total in Chicago. However, very few charter schools employ non-certified teachers. In its first year of operation, Amandla had one provisionally certified teacher, who had moved from another state. Since then, none at all. Charter schools generally recognize that an outstanding teacher is the basis for student growth, and certified teachers are teachers with the training to be outstanding. But we recognize that it takes more than training — it takes the right kind of coaching and supervision, as well as the teacher’s dedication, and we seek to provide that.

  • 102. Christopher Ball (@skepticismwins)  |  September 4, 2013 at 11:04 am

    @76:

    The reason ISBE did not report the percentiles (based on SAT10) on this year’s ISAT reports is that there are a number of students in the state that would have received a do-not-meets score on the ISAT, but would have received an NPR that would indicate the student should not be in that reporting category (probably with a higher than expected percentile when compared with the overall ISAT score).

    How do you know that is the reason? Is this a surmise or did some from ISBE state this?

    Because if it is the reason then the ISBE official who decided to do this is a, well, I can’t write it in polite company. If correct, ISBE is misleading parents and the public.

  • 103. Veteran  |  September 4, 2013 at 11:18 am

    #101 http://webprod.isbe.net/ereportcard/publicsite/searchBySchool.aspx?searchby=schoolName&language=english&year=2012&keyword=amandla&type=card

    I looked up your school after your initial posting and was not surprised to note that 33.3% of your teachers are not certified. I was pleasantly surprised at your low class size which is great for SWD.

    This was on the 2012 ISBE report card. So, in 2013 you only have one provisionally certified teacher? That says a lot about your school’s being able to attract and retain only certified teachers.

  • 104. somebody else  |  September 4, 2013 at 11:22 am

    Does anyone have the answers to #97?

    Anyone?

    Beuller?

  • 105. anotherchicagoparent  |  September 4, 2013 at 12:21 pm

    @97, poster 19 copied and pasted the info from that site. You have to highlight and press the tab that reads “Important!! Test Blueprint for the 2014 ISAT Reading and Mathematics Assessments”
    Additional questions you may call 1-866-317-6034
    http://www.isbe.state.il.us/assessment/isat.htm

  • 106. @IB obsessed  |  September 4, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    It is clearly stated in the first dot point that the Stanford 10s another term for sat10s will not be on the 2014 parent report. I cut and pasted the info from the link.

  • 107. anotherchicagoparent  |  September 4, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    Via Lane Tech Academic center’s website,Facebook and twitter, They stated that they received the ISAT stanines in a separate document and will be distributing them to kids tomorrow.

    I have to admit for such a big school they have a great chain of communication going on.

  • 108. tier4  |  September 4, 2013 at 5:55 pm

    The SAT-10 are the only questions that count for SE. To 7th grade parents–you can figure out what days and what questions they are. I’m guessing it was the first 30? math and reading questions that counted. Worked for us–my daughter is a freshman at SE high school from Tier 4.

  • 109. IB obsessed  |  September 4, 2013 at 7:39 pm

    @108 see 106 above. There will be no SAT 10 questions.

  • 110. Christopher Ball (@skepticismwins)  |  September 4, 2013 at 8:10 pm

    So I asked to get ISAT cohort data for the 2013 ISAT. The IIRC only has data up to the 2012 test, but as of 8 July the 2013 data was available to school officials. I thought this was odd, so I asked the IIRC contact how to get the data. She quickly replied that the data is embargoed until 31 Oct. So, I contacted ISBE’s Assessment office and an official there said that the data indeed was embargoed. The State Board is required to release the data under state law by 31 Oct. but chooses to delay the release until 31 Oct. Districts can release it sooner. CPS has not.

    Accountability by testing is myth.

  • 111. CPC4Chicago  |  September 4, 2013 at 10:31 pm

    IB Obsessed,

    The important question you asked that remains unanswered:

    So again, what will be used to replace the points given for ISAT percentile score for this years 7th graders’ SEHS admissions?

    I reached out to an organization which I anticipated while not CPS nonetheless has a vested interest to find out the answer to this question. They anticipate CPS reaching/announcing a decision on this point around October 1st. I gathered that the current 1/3 weighting of a 7th grade standardized test score will still be the case but the question of whether they essentially rank scores utilizing the “new”/Common Core ISATs or potentially MAP tests remains unresolved. Enough of a sample size exists for either that you could easily assign the equivalent of national percentages to the results of either option.

    Perhaps I’m thinking about this too simplistically, but I can’t see how it matters whether a kid is considered to be testing in the top 1% nationally (an apparently inflated figure when in comes to ISATs but that’s an entirely different discussion) when said child’s competition for the slots is entirely local. I guess this “casting a wider net” for 7th grade measure is just to facilitate having scores for kids who might end up in the city from anyplace USA with the thought being that by the time you’re in 8th grade you can limit the test to kids who are actually already here or ‘potentially’ here in the case of suburban or private school kids who will move into the city or transfer only if they can get a desired spot via the SEHS exam. So my thought would be to have CPS just pick/utilize/accept one 7th grade standardized test (no “venue shopping”) and just assign the percentages based on those “apples to apples” results.

  • 112. tier4  |  September 5, 2013 at 10:08 am

    “@108 see 106 above. There will be no SAT 10 questions.”

    WEll, I guess that is good news for those who bombed it and bad news for those who did well. Talk about adding to the stress! My son was in the 8th grade class that introduced Tiers and we survived. Chances are the scores will correlate.

  • 113. Family Friend  |  September 5, 2013 at 11:25 am

    @103 Veteran: I will look into the discrepancy between the ISBE stats and my information re certification.

  • 114. Family Friend  |  September 5, 2013 at 11:34 am

    But — I note that the 33.3% all have provisional or emergency certification — that probably means they were hired from out of state and are awaiting Illinois certification. This certainly does not mean they are unqualified. Final answer to follow.

  • 115. West Loop Family  |  September 5, 2013 at 1:54 pm

    For HS selection, was there a Non‐CPS Student Eligibility Letter Request Form last year or year before that?

    Is this something new for 2014-15 selection?

  • 116. Christopher Ball (@skepticismwins)  |  September 5, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    @110 After some digging, I realized that ISBE and the IIRC are not reporting true cohort data. In fact, the IIRC “cohort” just compares the scores of all 3rd graders in year t to all 4th graders in year t+1. The trouble with doing this is that not all 3rd graders in year t stay in the same school for year t+1 and some new students arrive from other schools. So the data is in the Excel files that CPS provides.

    I thought IIRC had true cohort data because CPS did in fact distinguish students who remained at a school year-over-year from those that moved in and out when it put together value-added scores. I assumed CPS was pulling from the IIRC data, but that does not appears to be the case.

    This still does not explain why ISBE delays updating the easy-to-road IIRC reports for the public even though the info has been in the system since July.

  • 117. Family Friend  |  September 5, 2013 at 4:50 pm

    Veteran — I have researched the situation at Amandla, and as to provisional certification. Provisional certificates are issued to teachers who have valid teaching certificates from out of state; they are good for two years.

    Most states have some particular requirements for licensure that are particular to that state. For example, in MN teachers must have coursework in human relations, environmental studies and Native American studies. Most states don’t require those courses for a secondary social studies certificate. The two year provisional certificate allows a teacher from another state to teach while he or she takes any courses required for an IL certificate that were not required in the state where he/she was initially licensed.

    Teachers with provisional certificates are considered certified teachers. They can and do teach in schools all over the city.

    As I stated earlier ALL Amandla teachers are certified. I misspoke about there not being any with provisional certificates. We have been adding a grade a year and that means lots of new staff every year. We get resumes from all over the country — many more that we have positions for — and are fortunate to be able to pick and choose.

  • 118. @110  |  September 5, 2013 at 4:58 pm

    Cps did release the data it’s on the website under I want to learn about school performance. That’s how cpso got her info for a previous thread about the isat.

  • 119. Mayfair Dad  |  September 5, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    @71: Grades 7 – 12 at D2 Lawndale Campus, which allows many seventh graders to take ninth grade courses (and opens up advance placement/bridge program opportunities for grades 11-12 down the road). Mayfair Twins loving the D2 Lawndale experience so far. Let me know when you’d like to visit and I will make sure your son meets real live D2 students from Mayfair!

  • 120. Veteran  |  September 5, 2013 at 6:33 pm

    #117 Thanks for the clarification. I still think that 33.3% is very high especially when the state average is .06%.

    According to the newly released CPS budget I know that CPS is paying social security for the non-certified teachers in the charter schools.

  • 121. Christopher Ball (@skepticismwins)  |  September 5, 2013 at 10:28 pm

    @118 Thanks. I saw that data in July. See my semi-correction @116. I was under the false assumption that the IIRC had more useful data. It does not. Nevertheless, why ISBE delays the release in the easier-to-read IIRC until the deadline is beyond me.

  • 122. Family Friend  |  September 6, 2013 at 10:50 am

    Veteran — if having teachers certified in another state meant that students made less progress, I would agree with you. But it doesn’t. The statistic is meaningless — what counts is that our average student growth is outstanding — last year, our eighth graders averaged an amazing 2.6 years of growth in math. I don’t know whether the 8th grade math teacher had a provisional certification, but I do know that teacher is exceptional.

  • 123. Veteran  |  September 6, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    I think that there is a misconception in that non-certified is synonymous with those who are provisionally certified.

    As you explained those who are provisionally certified may have been certified in another state and need additional coursework/tests to be certified in Illinois. There is also a group of non-certified teachers in the charters who have no teaching degrees. Private schools and charters do hire people with college degrees but not teaching degrees.

    Our gym teacher worked in many private schools in Chicago and sometimes he was the only certified teacher in the building (this is due to PE liability) He said many of the lessons were scripted. Teaching is a very difficult job and I can not imagine trying to do it without any of the coursework-I also think it is a life long commitment not something that one dabbles in for two-three years until something better comes along.

    Also, a good administrator would never single out a specific teacher as being responsible for a test score increase as it is a school wide effort where every adult in the building contributes. Eight graders had to have previous good teaching in prior grades to show this much growth. Singling out a teacher for superstar status (maybe a private conference w. the admin) is not best practice and those who major in education know this….my opinion.

  • 124. @123  |  September 6, 2013 at 2:55 pm

    Do you seriously think that teachers who get their certifications at schools like National Louis are better teachers than an English major from U of I? I can tell you that these types of certifications mean nothing to many parents. It’s all about performance and boiler plate certifications are meaningless.

  • 125. Veteran  |  September 6, 2013 at 3:03 pm

    ISBE certifies, not the universities…yes it is about performance but in order to perform you must be certified and in order to teach you must have superior classroom management skills…I’ve seen IOWA and U of I graduates run out of classrooms in CPS….

  • 126. Chris  |  September 6, 2013 at 5:08 pm

    “ISBE certifies, not the universities…yes it is about performance but in order to perform you must be certified and in order to teach you must have superior classroom management skills…I’ve seen IOWA and U of I graduates run out of classrooms in CPS….”

    And yet ISBE will license (not certify anymore) kids with math or science degrees and ZERO “education” coursework. So, is it *actually* about the education degree, or not?

  • 127. local  |  September 6, 2013 at 5:10 pm

    What’s wrong with National-Louis?

  • 128. Iheoma  |  September 6, 2013 at 5:19 pm

    @124 – As a parent who values performance, I would prefer a person with a teaching certificate from National-Louis (or any other state certified graduate teaching program) to a person with an undergraduate degree in any field – Ivy, Big Ten,small liberal arts college, ect. Teaching is a profession that requires specialized education, skills and certification and I place a high value of the skills needed for it to be done well. Some of the smartest people I know are not good teachers, because they don’t know how to teach, don’t understand child (or adolescent) behavior or have any understanding of how to manage a classroom. Earning an undergraduate degree in a particular subject area is not the same as what is taught in any graduate teaching program nor does it take the place of an organized, well managed and supervised student teacher experience.

  • 129. SoxSideIrish4  |  September 6, 2013 at 5:31 pm

    128. Iheoma | September 6, 2013 at 5:19 pm

    Nicely said~totally agree!

    @127~local~NOTHING is wrong w/National-Lewis.

  • 130. Veteran  |  September 6, 2013 at 6:20 pm

    #128-very well said…..reminds me of a teacher ( a great guy with an MBA but no courses in education and no experience with elementary children) who was sent to our school to relieve overcrowding and asked me to test a girl because he thought she was an “idiot savant” When I asked him why he thought that he said it was because when he would point out things she was doing wrong she would laugh/giggle and her face would get very red….it was a shock to him to find out that the child was embarrassed and giggling was just a reaction….thank God he didn’t tell the mother who was the LSC chair what he initially thought….

    #126 I wasn’t aware that one could be a licensed teacher without the coursework in education and a passing score on the licensing tests,,,,hmmm I did check to see if my certificate had been moved over to a license but I did not check the requirements.WOW! that is news….

  • 131. local  |  September 6, 2013 at 8:10 pm

    @ 128. Iheoma | September 6, 2013 at 5:19 pm

    Me too.

    Interesting read from teacher Ray Salazar (read thoroughly): http://www.chicagonow.com/white-rhino/2013/09/why-i-discourage-latino-students-from-becoming-teachers/

  • 132. curious  |  September 6, 2013 at 8:39 pm

    @128 – why would a smart person from a top tier university who does not know how to teach go into teaching? Many are smart enough to know that you can get a lot more mileage with another degree and still be an excellent teacher.

  • 133. Iheoma  |  September 6, 2013 at 8:59 pm

    @132 Here are couple of reasons my friends with biology degrees from the University of Chicago decided to go into teaching:

    1. Bridge year(s) between undergrad and medical school – to earn money, gain experience, try a career, ect.
    2. Bridge year(s) between undergrad and graduate school -same as the above
    3. Teaching at a local private school that did not require certification paid more than being a lab assistant with a B.A.

    There are plenty more reasons but those are the ones I can tell you directly from my classmates. My sister, who is an MD, taught middle school (not CPS) for two years before she started med school with an undergraduate degree in biology. She would be the first to say that she was not prepared to be a teacher. She knew a heck of a lot about biology but she did not know what it took to really meet the needs of her students. That’s not to say that everyone is the same, it’s just that as a parent, I want a teacher who has subject knowledge *as well as* specialized training in education.

  • 134. John K  |  September 6, 2013 at 10:55 pm

    ” I would prefer a person with a teaching certificate from National-Louis ”

    You’re kidding right? Those majoring in education have some of the worse ACT scores than those going into almost any other subject area. Teachers with no higher degree in their subject area is why kids are performing worse than those in other countries. Educators give us crap like IMP (math) and Common Core. They may know teaching methods, but they don’t understand what they are teaching. Kids are being let down by their teachers and parents. An educated public is a politician’s dream, And the politicians are succeeding, big time.

    Those who can’t do

  • 135. cpsobsessed  |  September 6, 2013 at 11:05 pm

    I’m inclear – what is the “subject area” for a 3rd grade teacher? So you’re saying that if teacher had more masters degrees in a certain subject area that would overcome the education obstacles of the US (ie mainly a large poor population)? I wish I could believe that “more masters degrees” is all it takes to create a broad, well-educated population, I really do.

    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

  • 136. local  |  September 6, 2013 at 11:17 pm

    Shoo. I needed training to be a parent. But, aside from a birthing class, I had none. Practiced a lot on my first. Poor kid! 😉

  • 137. Iheoma  |  September 6, 2013 at 11:43 pm

    @John – actually what I would really like would be for middle school and high school teachers to have subject matter expertise and graduate level teacher training. I would love for there to be reading and math specialist in elementary schools in addition to regular classroom teachers who have expertise in TEACHING. I’m really curious and somewhat frustrated with the notion that teaching is a profession that doesn’t require specialized training. I’m not a teacher but I have a deep respect for the training and continuing education that most teachers complete.

  • 138. IBobsessed  |  September 7, 2013 at 9:03 am

    @134, ” An educated public is a politician’s dream, And the politicians are succeeding, big time”

    Don’t you mean an UNeducated public is a politicians dream?

    Easier to get uninformed, math illiterate, non-critical thinkers to
    to believe politican’s nonsense.

  • 139. anonymouse teacher  |  September 7, 2013 at 9:37 am

    @134, Please provide a link of scientifically supported research, meaning one with several broad studies, to your assertion that “Teachers with no higher degree in their subject area is why kids are performing worse than those in other countries.” I’d like to read it. Thanks!

  • 140. HS Mom  |  September 7, 2013 at 10:32 am

    @137 – agreed. I think the point previously brought up is that it’s not the “certification” but the performance of the teacher that counts. I notice that many HS teachers have English, Math, Biology degrees and have much to offer in those fields. Had an experience with a “certified” teacher in 5th grade who did not know how to teach math. So, if certification means they supposedly know how to handle kids, great. Doesn’t necessarily make you a better teacher. For me, I would prefer a highly educated knowledgeable teacher who knows how to communicate – certified or not.

  • 141. Family Friend  |  September 7, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    I think both teaching skills and subject matter expertise are necessary — you must know the material, and you must know how to convey it. And I agree, classroom management is a big part of that.

    I agree that our Amandla teachers are all superstars — and it’s because they are educated in both teaching and subject matter. Certification, which we insist on, tells us they have the coursework. Additionally, they are not hired without being observed in the classroom — if possible, in their own classrooms where they are already teaching; a “demonstration” lesson at our school is second choice. Moreover, they are coached, by our principals, by their lead teachers, and by one another in peer groups. They are open to improvement. They are not defensive because most of the observation and feedback does not count toward their performance ratings. Once, when we were discussing student improvement, the board asked about one score (e.g., 6th grade math) where the amount of improvement was smaller than in other grades and subjects. Our CEO explained — “that was a new teacher; she’ll be better next year.” We have confidence in our professional development program, and so do our teachers.

    It used to be thought that teachers were “naturals.” Either you have it or you don’t. Now, through observation and research, schools of education are learning that there are certain behaviors exhibited by the best teachers. These can be taught, and in the best schools of education they are being taught. I know our administrators have an idea which schools of education turn out the best teachers, and they are setting up relationships with those schools. I don’t know which schools are the best, but I know we look at recent results, not longstanding reputation.

  • 142. SSPerson  |  September 7, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    About 7th grade Isats…
    At Keller, last week we received our children’s scores with their percentiles. The 300 scores are based on the entire three tests and extended response, but the percentiles are only based on the first test. If you hear that a student with a 292 got in the 98th percentile, and your child got the same score, DO NOT assume your child was in the 98th percentile, because, as mentioned, the overall score is based on the entire subject test, and the percentile is only based on the first section.

  • 143. cpsobsessed  |  September 7, 2013 at 9:48 pm

    @142 SSPerson: thanks -good to know. You just reminded me to bust open the backpack to look for the percentile scores that were promised.
    FWIW, the envelope and the scores are on a label that appears to have been done via mail merge.

    Also FWIW, using mail merge in Word has always proven incredibly difficult for me. I’d probably just hand write stuff if I were the teacher. Maybe they’ve made it easier these days, but based on the past, I doubt it.

  • 144. cpsobsessed  |  September 7, 2013 at 9:59 pm

    I’m playing around with the points calculator at cpsmagnet.org for high school. Man, getting 1 B in 7th grade is a killer for Tier 4. Even with 98% on the ISATs, Lane is the only north side/downtown SEHS option.

    Btw, noticed today that Lake View high school has Divvy bike rack!

  • 145. falconergrad  |  September 7, 2013 at 10:14 pm

    Family Friend, how does Amandla afford so many administrators for such a small school? Or do some of them not draw a salary?

    Also, from Amandla’s website FAQ:
    Do you have to pass an entrance exam to be accepted to a charter school? No. Charter schools are not like magnet or private schools and do not require students to take any admissions tests. Any student in Chicago who would like to attend a charter school may do so. However, just like other public schools, some charter schools do have enrollment boundaries and some accept only a small number of students per year. If a charter school has more students apply than it has space, it will create a waiting list and hold a lottery before school starts to admit students.

    This is pretty misleading info about magnet schools at least in CPS. There are some that are simple lotteries. And I don’t know that all private schools require passing an entrance exam, especially at fifth grade. I doubt your average Catholic school is testing K or other entering students to decide whether to accept or not.

    Is Amandla operated by a for profit or non profit?

  • 146. cpsobsessed  |  September 7, 2013 at 10:25 pm

    @Falconer: I was trying to figure out what you felt was misleading, but now I see that that sentence, while not explicitly, sort of loosely implies that magnets/privates have admission tests. If taken literally it’s not tying those together but I can see your point.

  • 147. Family Friend  |  September 8, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    Amandla’s administration is pretty lean, considering that they have to do everything in-house that CPS headquarters does for schools. I know, sometimes it seems that CPS headquarters is completely useless, but there are a lot of requirements that have to be taken care of. We didn’t have principals at first, just our Executive Director and Assistant Executive Director, plus a Director of Students and Families (“dean”), a part-time receptionist and a bookkeeper for one day a week. Then we added a curriculum director, because our three top administrators were working 16-hour days plus weekends, and we did not want them to burn out. Our special ed coordinator was an absolute necessity to avoid missing all the federal deadlines etc. involved in that arena — in CPS elementary schools the school counselor does that work. We don’t have a counselor. Our special ed coordinator, a experienced certified special ed teacher, can serve as an adviser to our special ed and regular classroom teachers. We added middle school and high school principals and cut out the curriculum director, because we were convinced that best practice requires separate principals for the two schools. We hired and fired a fundraiser, but we are thinking about getting a different one, as our fundamentals are at risk after the last round of cuts. Our Dean got a new title and an assistant, because creating the right culture for the kind of education we want to deliver is very hard work. Our receptionist is now full time. Everyone does what is needed — somebody threw up? Whoever is available will clean it up. (“Flamin’ Red Hots” are now barred in middle school.) Somebody came to school without her uniform pants? Our receptionist will explain why that does not mean she gets to wear her jeans, but must put on some unflattering extra pants that happen to fit, more or less. Our staff is over 40 in number now, and the overwhelming majority – I think about 36 – are teachers.

    Our class sizes are small, and we receive less funding per student, even after the recent restructuring, than regular CPS schools. You can look at our budget to how we do it. I am not saying a regular district school can do the same — they have to meet requirements we don’t.

    There is a persistent myth, or series of myths, that charter schools are not really getting the results they claim, are overpaying administrators (every single one of our administrators, and most of our teachers, would get a raise with a transfer to a regular CPS position); are using unqualified teachers; are making a “profit” for their operators; don’t educate students with learning disabilities; get rid of students that are not performing well academically, and so on. Each of these myths may be rooted in fact — some school, somewhere, has each of these problems. But it’s not fair to generalize from those stories to all charters. Amandla is not like that and, as someone who has been privileged to spend time in a score of charters, I can say that in Chicago, it’s very rare. Should I assume that coaches at all regular district schools molest children, because someone, somewhere has done so? Shall I assume that administrators are stealing the vending machine money at all regular public schools, because some have? Renting out the gym and other facilities to outside groups and pocketing the money?

    There is a strong desire to discredit charters. It says something negative about our school system if independent schools can do more with less. I think we can all agree the system is broken. But we can’t begin to fix it until we stop pointing fingers, until every person involved accepts responsibility for his or her share in the mess — even if you didn’t create it, you have a moral obligation to do something to fix it. And that includes all of us, not just those with skin in the game.

  • 148. Family Friend  |  September 8, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    On testing for magnets — high school magnets require a certain stanine to get into the lottery. I agree that the Amandla web page is inelegant; I am supposed to be proofing it for things like that — time to buckle down!

    I don’t know whether private schools test, but I don’t think that was the intent. Everyone knows that private schools require money most Englewood parents don’t have. (Saw in the Trib that the average household income in Englewood is under $20K.)

    I appreciate your close reading of our public statements.

  • 149. anonymouse teacher  |  September 8, 2013 at 4:31 pm

    One of the things we have been getting PD’s on for Common Core is on close reading. God—I have got to get out more when I start seeing Common Core everywhere. 🙂

  • 150. cpsobsessed  |  September 8, 2013 at 4:33 pm

    What’s “close reading”?

    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

  • 151. Veteran  |  September 8, 2013 at 6:27 pm

    “It says something negative about our school system if independent schools can do more with less” I think this is a very misleading statement. Independent schools do not do more with “less”….please realize that a single special needs child with severe issues may cost CPS a $100,000.00 a year ….independent charters and private schools do not have this additional cost, security is a huge monetary issue in CPS (charters do not keep gang bangers etc), salaries are low in private and independent schools(very few veterans to pay) ……etc…..if your child needs something as simple as speech services and is enrolled at an independent school he/she comes to CPS for services….you cannot compare apple and oranges….I have observed in private school classrooms and see the same teacher quality as in CPS BUT I do not see the classroom management issues we in CPS have because …..private schools kick those children out or the parents never enroll them…..

    I am glad that your charter is serving the needs of the Englewood community but let’s get real here…you have a low class size compared to CPS so you should be doing better….36 teachers for 400 students is unheard of in CPS…even our sped classes have more ……

  • 152. anonymouse teacher  |  September 8, 2013 at 8:28 pm

    Close reading (kind of like reading closely) is pretty much just what it sounds like. It is paying careful attention to the text, pulling out the inferences, the details, understanding the vocabulary, making connections,etc. Close reading is supposed to be done after multiple readings–the opposite of skimming. Students should understand the text deeply if they “close read”.

  • 153. local  |  September 8, 2013 at 9:02 pm

    cpso: “Divvy will be available to everyone 16 years and older with a credit or debit card.”

  • 154. PatientCPSMom  |  September 9, 2013 at 8:55 am

    On Friday night there was an amazing documentary on WBBM called TEACH. The documentary followed 4 different teachers around the country and captured the challenges they encounter everyday. Here is the link http://www.takepart.com/teach?cmpid=teach-sem.

    It’s worth a look and a discussion.

  • 155. Family Friend  |  September 9, 2013 at 3:56 pm

    Veteran — it’s not true that charters don’t handle children who need speech services. It should be noted that under federal law CPS (the LEA or Local Education Agency) is responsible for providing appropriate services to students with disabilities. Formerly, CPS would send a speech therapist, social worker, or other clinician to the charter school according to the services required by a school’s IEPs, as part of charter funding required under state law. Now, CPS pays the charter what it thinks those hours are worth. For example, if we used to get a social worker 1.5 days a week, now we get 30% of a clinician’s salary and benefits (at a lower rate than CPS actually pays for its clinicians). Finding someone to work for less is one thing — finding someone to work 1.5 days a week is completely different! and even if we could find that person, our health insurance provider would not allow us to offer him or her benefits.

    Your answer does what I hoped you wouldn’t — generalizes what you have heard about one charter to all charters. You say “charters do not keep gang bangers etc.” That’s not accurate. Charters do not, in general, tolerate gang activity — recruiting, fighting, weapons possession, gang signals, and so forth (and we don’t distinguish between members and non-members who engage in those activities) — but we all know we have gang members in our schools. Some kids have to be part of a gang to get out of the house and make it to school. If we can give that student an alternative, and hope for the future, that is what we are about.

  • 156. local  |  September 9, 2013 at 7:31 pm

    Re: TEACH. I was hesitant to seek out this documentary because it’s connected to the same guy who created Waiting for Superman, David Guggenheim.

  • 157. Pat T  |  September 10, 2013 at 4:25 pm

    Please send a thank you note to the Chicago Teachers Union…

    “State exam scores plunged to record lows across most grades after the state raised the bar to pass the spring 2013 exams for 3rd through 8th graders, according to results released today.

    Overall, math scores took the biggest hit on the Illinois Standards Achievement Tests. The steepest drop was for 3rd graders taking the math test, state officials reported. Only 54.9 percent of them passed compared with 87.7 percent the year before.

    The percentage of students passing reading and math tests in each of the other grades fell to about 59 percent, compared to the mid to high 70s and 80s in prior years.

    Only one grade, 4th grade, posted a passing rate above 60 percent, and that was 60.2 percent on the math exam, according to results released by the Illinois State Board of Education.”

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-state-school-exam-results-drop-after-state-raises-required-passing-scores-20130910,0,3532829.story

  • 158. Veteran  |  September 10, 2013 at 5:10 pm

    #157….Please send a thank you note to the Chicago Teachers Union…
    Obviously, you did not read the article you posted the link to…..or maybe you don’t realize that the entire state of Illinois takes this test thus the name….or maybe you think we, Chicago Teachers, teach everyone in Illinois…..the bar was raised which we, Chicago Teachers, have complained about it being too low for years……actually I always thought that the bar was so low and tied into grade promotions and that was why it would never be changed so this is good news…..but we shall see if CPS continues to prevent teachers from failing students….social promotions have never left CPS and is a topic you should be concerned with……not thank you notes….

  • 159. west rogers park mom  |  September 19, 2013 at 9:29 am

    Now that everyone has received their percentage scores, I wonder if we can figure out what the correlating % is to an ‘exceeds’ rating. I talked to a friend who says her kids percentage was over 90% but still only in the ‘meets’ range.

    I would guess that there would be different thresholds for every grade and subject but still that seems surprising.

  • 160. cpsobsessed  |  September 19, 2013 at 10:20 am

    That’s a good question.
    My son’s math score was just over the exceeds limit and his percentile was a 93. So that seemed like a kind of high threshold – probably around the 90-92 percent mark?

    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

  • 161. chicago tax payer  |  September 19, 2013 at 10:03 pm

    percentiles include only a small subset of the multiple choice questions. not included are the extended response. so if you bombed the short essay component, it brings down 3 digit meets/exceeds composite score. the composite 3 digit score includes everything. get it.

  • 162. somebody else  |  September 19, 2013 at 11:54 pm

    CPSO – Wait a second. My kid’s math score was in the “Meets” range, but his percentile is 94. Huh?

  • 163. Wondering  |  September 20, 2013 at 8:40 am

    Get scores, but no percentages….where can we locate what the corresponding % is?

  • 164. cpsobsessed  |  September 20, 2013 at 9:34 am

    You have to ask your teacher or admin for the percentiles.

    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

  • 165. cpsobsessed  |  September 20, 2013 at 9:36 am

    @somebody else – mine was 4th grade last year. Could vary by grade?

    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

  • 166. cpsobsessed  |  September 20, 2013 at 9:37 am

    But I think having only the top 5 percent of kids as being “exceeds” seems like a high bar.

    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

  • 167. cliff  |  September 20, 2013 at 10:01 am

    i think chicago tax payer is right — there is no1-to-1 correlation of meets or exceeds to percentile, because the student’s NPR comes only from their results on the SAT-10 portion of the ISAT, whereas the standards category comes from their results on the whole test, including the state-specific (and therefore not nationally-normed) portions.

  • 168. Chris  |  September 20, 2013 at 10:28 am

    “i think chicago tax payer is right — there is no1-to-1 correlation of meets or exceeds to percentile, because the student’s NPR comes only from their results on the SAT-10 portion of the ISAT, whereas the standards category comes from their results on the whole test, including the state-specific (and therefore not nationally-normed) portions.”

    Yes, exactly. As stated by educator above:

    “educator | September 3, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    The National Percentile Rating (NPR) was not on this year’s printed ISAT reports because the ranking (due to changes in the 2013 ISAT), in some cases, presents a different picture of student performance than the overall ISAT score and category (meets, exceeds, etc.). As previously mentioned, the NPR is based on something called the SAT10, 30 multiple choice questions embedded in the ISATs that is a norm-referenced test (like the GRE & SAT). The remainder of the ISATs are criterion-based assessments which set a predetermined level of acceptable performace and students pass or fail at that level.”

    So, those extended response scores (4/3/2/1) matter, too, for meets/exceeds, as do the rest of the multi-choice not include in the SAT10.

  • 169. in the thick of things  |  September 20, 2013 at 11:00 am

    I’m confused – which math/reading test scores are used for the Selective Enrollment process? NPR? Overall ISAT score?

  • 170. Chris  |  September 20, 2013 at 11:37 am

    ” which math/reading test scores are used for the Selective Enrollment process?”

    Up to last year: NPR

    (see FAQ on cps site: “Testing eligibility for the Selective Enrollment High Schools admissions exam is based on the student’s 2012-2013 ISAT national percentile rank in reading and math or, if the student did not take the ISAT, the 2012-2013 percentile rank in reading and math on a different nationally normed, standardized achievement test.”)

    This year, afaik: Same.

    Next year and thereafter: ??? Seems no one is certain, yet, or not telling.

  • 171. in the thick of things  |  September 20, 2013 at 12:01 pm

    Thanks, Chris. So re: the comment above where math score was 94 but only “meets,” the “meets” designation really doesn’t matter – right? 94 is the NPR for math, and that’s what is considered as part of the SEHS admissions process (along with the NPR for reading)
    .

  • 172. Chris  |  September 20, 2013 at 12:11 pm

    ” re: the comment above where math score was 94 but only “meets,” the “meets” designation really doesn’t matter – right? 94 is the NPR for math, and that’s what is considered as part of the SEHS admissions process (along with the NPR for reading)”

    That is 100% my understanding. Someone might have further nuance, but if so, it’s *really* hidden.

  • 173. Somebody else  |  September 20, 2013 at 6:18 pm

    Ok, I get it now – meets/exceeds and NPR are different.

    As for next year…I spoke to someone in the Student Assessment department and they told me its undecided. They said it should be determined by Thanksgiving.

  • 174. mick  |  November 8, 2013 at 12:11 pm

    when were the isats frst given in idaho

  • 175. Any ISAT replacement news  |  November 21, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    We have been told that ISATs will not be used for this year’s current 7th graders in computing there score for SEHS…has anyone heard yet what the replacement will be? I’ve asked at my sons school & it was suggested that they may use the MAP test scores??? Anyone have any updated information on this issue?

  • 176. mom  |  December 2, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    My son has double 99s and straight As i have no stress

  • 177. IBobsessed  |  December 2, 2013 at 5:20 pm

    @176

    And you’re sharing this with us because…………???

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