New start times – what’d ya get?

May 21, 2012 at 6:12 pm 252 comments

Couple people have mentioned an interest in hearing about the new start times assigned to the schools to stagger the longer days.  We can’t all start at the same time for a range of reasons, so 7:45- 9am? is the range?  Or perhaps 8:45 is the latest.

My son’s school got 8:45. I’m pretty happy because we are not morning people.

I don’t know the rationale.  Skinner North got 7:45 which is pretty beastly considering a lot of kids take a bus there.  I believe CPS is trying to avoid having kids come home in the dark which can be scary in certain neighborhoods.

Schools can appeal if they have a good reason.

What start times did your school get and how do you feel about it?

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252 Comments Add your own

  • 1. Pritzker Mom  |  May 21, 2012 at 6:20 pm

    Pritzker got 8:45 to 3:45. We’re happy with that – 8:45 is a more convenient start than 9:30.

  • 2. Lasalle II parent  |  May 21, 2012 at 6:27 pm

    I am one who is not happy with the 7:45 time. We were at an 8am start school for first grade and it was brutal on both ends because the school let out at 1:40. I find it funny that CPS was not so concerned with what the kid were doing unsupervised after 1:40. Many of the kids at this school just hung out around school till there parents picked them up at 5 or 6pm at the local library(most got kicked out for loitering) or at the park nearby. This school is in a good neighborhood so I think it was a better option to hang out in LIttle Italy then to hang out in their own neighborhood. CPS really doesnt put safety first it is always money first. Just like the breakfast in classroom dollars but no sense.
    In a few years the 7:45 will be a thing of the past because parents wont stand for it and once again our kids will be used as lab mice.

    I sound a little cynical but I am really upset with CPS.

  • 3. Susan  |  May 21, 2012 at 6:28 pm

    Franklin will start at 8:15 next year.

  • 4. chicagodad  |  May 21, 2012 at 6:40 pm

    What we got are 2 kids that are going to be royally pissed that this interferes with the after school stuff they are so passionate about, and even more pissed about staying up later to do homework.

  • 5. cpsmommy  |  May 21, 2012 at 6:41 pm

    Lane Tech 8:30AM-4PM. The school had requested 8AM start time and is appealing this.

  • 6. Harry&Jack's mom  |  May 21, 2012 at 6:43 pm

    Actually, Skinner North surveyed its families and ended up appealing its 7:45 start time and got assigned 8:15 now.

  • 7. cpsemployee  |  May 21, 2012 at 6:43 pm

    The appeal process ended already. Schools were given their start times on April 27th and had until May 10th to appeal. Final times were given this week (after the appeals were reviewed.)

  • 8. not morning people  |  May 21, 2012 at 7:03 pm

    my kids start at 7:55 & end at 1:45 and school was assigned a new time of 7:45-2:45. I have to get on the expressway but not for very long to get them to school. 7:55 has been difficult (my kids are newish to the school) because we aren’t morning people and you know sometimes the expressway moves & sometimes it doesn’t! We have racked up some tardies–way more than when we were at the closer school. Even the schools SIPPA says they were looking for ways to decrease the tardies. Well making the start time earlier won’t help either!

  • 9. Ann  |  May 21, 2012 at 7:18 pm

    Edison RGC: 8:00 am – 3:00 p.m

  • 10. Ivana  |  May 21, 2012 at 7:29 pm

    LaSalle got 8:45 to 3:45, and we are very happy with that

  • 11. EastLoopMom  |  May 21, 2012 at 7:31 pm

    Does anyone know the 2012-2013 start and end times for Ogden Elementary?

  • 12. colleen  |  May 21, 2012 at 7:32 pm

    Burr will be 8:45am-3:45pm

  • 13. tiffany  |  May 21, 2012 at 7:35 pm

    Addams on the Southeast side will be starting at 8:15.

  • 14. sosidemom  |  May 21, 2012 at 7:48 pm

    Kellogg will be 7:45 to 2:45.

  • 15. Lasalle II parent  |  May 21, 2012 at 7:52 pm

    post # 8 is right on target with this one. It will only increase tardies.
    Traffic can not be controlled by start times.

    To the Ogden parent I can tell you now that you will have a proper start time. it will not be before 8;30. I bet my house on that!
    Principal Staral will not have a 7:45 AM START TIME.

    The orginal Lasalle has 8:45 start time. Happy for them. I am sure they were given a choice and chose the later time. Cheers to good decision making.

  • 16. Skinner North Mom  |  May 21, 2012 at 8:14 pm

    I’m thrilled with Skinner North’s 8:15 start time. They initially told us we’d get either 7:45 or 8:45, both of which sounded horrible to me. (But, given a choice, I’d pick 7:45–getting out at 3:45 would be extremely disruptive to our schedule, and traffic is a breeze at 7:45.) The 8:15 start time is a perfect happy medium.

  • 17. Marketing Mom  |  May 21, 2012 at 8:47 pm

    Our school hasn’t communicated this yet. Is there a link n the cps website with this information?

  • 18. JulieF  |  May 21, 2012 at 9:15 pm

    #1 Pritzker Mom–I’m also at Pritzker, and I guess I would say the lateness of the day is worrying to me, especially if there is no adjustment to homework. With that late end, plus travel and homework, there’s not much for family time, or school play, or chess club, or whatever our kids want to do after school. Or just hanging out, ehich in some ways is the most important thing. I’d much prefer a 6.5 hr day, get out in time to have a life.

  • 19. anotherchicagoparent  |  May 21, 2012 at 9:30 pm

    Does anyone know if this means high school sports(games) will now start at 5 – 5.30 as some high schools will not get out until 4 p.m

  • 20. KD  |  May 21, 2012 at 9:30 pm

    My daughter’s contract school will remain 7:45 – 3:30.

  • 21. Mom  |  May 21, 2012 at 10:01 pm

    @18 — You are not going to please everyone. Many people would be much happier with 8:45 -3:45 vs. earlier. See previous posts. That said, can’t you make due with before school family time vs. after? And why couldn’t the school play or chess club happen from 4-5 (before many parents get home from work)? I think everyone can complain about something, but at some point it’s time to just make the best of it.

  • 22. southie  |  May 21, 2012 at 10:21 pm

    Good for Kellogg. Parents can get to work in time with a 7:45 bell.

  • 23. LaSalle II Kindergarten Fall 2012  |  May 21, 2012 at 10:28 pm

    I completely understand the concerns about tardiness and children who need it not getting their breakfast in the morning. Also with magnets, so many children have a long commute. Certainly legitimate concerns.

    In response to CPSObsessed’s question as to how we feel about our school start times, as far as my specific family goes, I am o.k. (at least for the moment) with the 7:45 start. Honestly, it will be tough on me to get the kids up, dressed and out in time and then drive almost five miles to school but, I believe that an earlier start and end time will give my child a better chance at getting through the day successfully (meaning in a positive manner socially, emotionally and being able to focus on what they need to at school.) I was fearful that if my child were to be in school until as late as 3:45 that it could spell nightmare as far as the kindergarten experience goes. So in our family, earlier day = hard on me but earlier day = better shot at my child being able to actually get through a seven hour school day in a successful, positive manner. Also nice will be very light traffic at that hour, the opportunity to complete any homework before dinner and the opportunity for play time or other activities before dinner because right after dinner it will be bath time and very soon to bed. If school went until 3:45, by the time we got home it would almost be time to eat, bathe and time to hit the sack. Little time for play or other activities. Ideally, I wish the kindergarten day was much shorter but considering the reality of a seven hour day, I believe the 7:45 a.m. start will work better than a later start for our child, at least for this year.

  • 24. mom2  |  May 21, 2012 at 10:29 pm

    How did you hear about Lane Tech? Is this for high school or the LTAC or both?

  • 25. yoonb  |  May 21, 2012 at 10:31 pm

    No, it’s not 7:45. I got the e-mail from the principal and it’s said the school starting time is 8:15.

  • 26. EbingerParent  |  May 21, 2012 at 10:32 pm

    Ebinger School got 8:45-3:45

  • 27. anonymouseteacher  |  May 21, 2012 at 10:48 pm

    @19, there’ll be major changes to sports and clubs this fall. I envision most things changing over to purely tuition based programs and families will have to pay private coaches and teachers to come and work those sports and clubs. School staff will be limited in their availability as they will have their hands full with the longer day as well as the mandatory 75 minutes per week of PD after school. What I wonder is what will high schools do? I know they have early dismissal one day per week so the PD can happen after that early dismissal. But if football practice starts at 4 p.m. and on early dismissal/PD days, and the entire staff is meeting from 2-4 (or whatever), every single student will have to exit the building during that time as no one will be there to supervise. Where will those kids go for that time? Does anyone know of any high schools that have addressed this challenge?

  • 28. CLB  |  May 21, 2012 at 10:59 pm

    Mayer is 8:30-3:30. My daughter is displeased by the 7-hour day, as she told me in the car today after reading the announcement.

    Initially, we had a 7:45 start but we appealed successfully. Given that Mayer has no busing despite its magnet status, it was unclear why it couldn’t set its own time anyway.

    I had FOIAed the traffic and safety studies that CPS claimed to have consulted, but after asking me to narrow my search, I have not heard back.

  • 29. Chicago Mama  |  May 21, 2012 at 11:10 pm

    Disney II has 8:30-3:30. I would have preferred 8-3, but my family lives close enough to not be on the tardy list, and this is a good compromise.

  • 30. falconergrad  |  May 21, 2012 at 11:12 pm

    Portage Park Elementary got 8:30-3:30 as per the principal at the LSC meeting last Tuesday. This was the first time I had heard and it seemed like it might have been the first time the LSC was hearing it, too. I asked about it in open forum, otherwise I am not sure he was even going to mention it. 😦

    My daughter is a good student and likes to go to school, but she is not very happy about the longer day. I would prefer a little shorter, too. The start time is ok with me, probably the best compromise for our family as I like a little “free” time in the morning AND the afternoon. We (usually) walk to a pretty good (but high enrollment) neighborhood school

    It occurred to me recently that with the longer day and the shortened hours for Chicago Public Library branches. getting to the library is going to be harder. Some close at 6 PM on 3 out of 4 weekdays.

  • 31. falconergrad  |  May 21, 2012 at 11:15 pm

    got cut off – we won’t have traffic worries as we go to a neighborhood school. maybe this is all part of a plan to get parents to go back to or choose their neighborhood school? i certainly would not be excited about the longer day if we had even a 30 minute commute.

  • 32. Oneandonly  |  May 21, 2012 at 11:27 pm

    Another Pritzker parent here. 8:45 to 3:45. Happy with that. Our former school was 8 to 3, that seemed “normal” to me. Now at Pritzker they may say 9:30 but my experience/observation is after they finish breakfast in the class room (UGH! breakfast good, but in class NO!) and get through the pledge etc. it’s nearly 9:50.

  • 33. CPSmama  |  May 21, 2012 at 11:29 pm

    WY is 8-3:30 for AC & HS – same start time as now, ending time is an hour later for most students (This could change if CTU successfully fights for a 7 hr day for HS’s between now and September in which case I assume it would be 8:00-3:00)

  • 34. SoxSideIrish4  |  May 22, 2012 at 12:40 am

    @33~I think that is a very long day for ackies~too long~I would love to see them stay 6.5, considering the commuting and homework.

  • 35. jkames  |  May 22, 2012 at 5:37 am

    Bell got 8:15 – 3:15; without any before or after care, that’s not bad for working parents

  • 36. kallys  |  May 22, 2012 at 7:19 am

    Murray got 8:15-3:15.

  • 37. CLB  |  May 22, 2012 at 7:58 am

    Which schools currently have a before-care program? We don’t have one at Mayer, and some parents have expressed interest.

  • 38. DomiDad  |  May 22, 2012 at 8:01 am

    Does anyone know about Waters?

  • 39. Sabrina12  |  May 22, 2012 at 8:03 am

    Does anyone know the time for Dever?

  • 40. Mayfair Dad  |  May 22, 2012 at 8:11 am

    @ 29. Same here. Mayfair Mom would have preferred 8 – 3 just because of after-school activities ending so late, but we are fine with 8:30 – 3:30. Also very happy to be at the best elementary school in the city. P.S. Our kids did really well at the track meet last night!

  • 41. HS Mom  |  May 22, 2012 at 8:52 am

    @27 teacher – I don’t understand your statement at all “I envision most things changing over to purely tuition based programs and families will have to pay private coaches and teachers to come and work those sports and clubs.” What is the basis of your prediction?

    you go on to further state “School staff will be limited in their availability as they will have their hands full with the longer day as well as the mandatory 75 minutes per week of PD after school”. As a parent, I don’t understand what PD is. The teachers day is supposed to be 10 minutes longer than the students.

    Our high school is going to block scheduling with an early release on Fridays. The time spent in school is designed to be more productive, if anything allowing the student to better organize their out of school time that is spent on sports/clubs. There will be a whole slot of time allocated in school to work with teachers. With longer periods, the teacher can work uninterrupted and have more meaningful class work. In our case, I’m hoping that the new schedule will actually provide time for clubs/sports that he currently does not have.

  • 42. anon mom  |  May 22, 2012 at 10:12 am

    Suder got 8:45-3:45. I heard we had asked for 8-3, which I would have preferred. 3:45 is getting awfully close to the witching hour for the little ones there.

    But my kids are roosters and are up by 6:30 anyway.

    At least with an 8:15 drop off I’ll finally make it to work on time more often than not.

    @37–Don’t you have the YMCA aftercare program? They will come and do a before school, too, if you have enough kids.

  • 43. MOMOF1  |  May 22, 2012 at 10:33 am

    Does anyone know the start time for Beasley?

  • 44. Terri Versace  |  May 22, 2012 at 10:54 am

    Waters got 8:45-3:45

  • 45. SR  |  May 22, 2012 at 11:21 am

    @37 – Coonley has a before-school program. I’m not certain how it got set up, but I think the school runs it (I write checks to the school, not the Boys and Girls Club or another outside org). It’s $5/day, which is nice for our family because we don’t need it every day.

  • 46. RP mom  |  May 22, 2012 at 11:25 am

    Anyone know where Peirce netted out?

  • 47. Mom  |  May 22, 2012 at 11:31 am

    Alcott will start a little earlier than current – 7:30. Starts now at 7:55. Timing will be good to get rid of current am traffic snarl with St. Clement a block south.

  • 48. drummond parent  |  May 22, 2012 at 11:45 am

    anyone know about drummond

  • 49. kiki h.  |  May 22, 2012 at 11:46 am

    STEM will be 8-3. I’m okay with it. The current schedule is 8:15-3:45. I like that we’re getting a shorter day. 😛 It would be nice to be able to do an after school activity or two.

  • 50. Wonderin  |  May 22, 2012 at 11:52 am

    anyone know hours for Wildwood IB?

  • 51. db  |  May 22, 2012 at 11:56 am

    Hamilton is 7:45am, it will be tough to get there everyday by that time. I’m betting on lots of tardy slips in the next school year.

  • 52. Mom  |  May 22, 2012 at 11:57 am

    Traffic is much lighter and predictable earlier in the morning, why would there be more tardy slips?

  • 53. j  |  May 22, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    Anyone know what time burley will be starting/ending their day?

  • 54. mom  |  May 22, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    Drummond is 8:45 to 3:45pm – but the principal was requesting 8:30 to 3:30pm. Haven’t heard yet if it was successful.

  • 55. jfcheng  |  May 22, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    Anyone know about Prescott?

  • 56. ZanesDad  |  May 22, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    McPherson is tentatively 8:45 – 3:45 but they are working to get 8:00 – 3:00.

  • 57. SutherlandParent  |  May 22, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    @14, that seems crazy to me that Kellogg will be starting a full hour before Sutherland! Sutherland will be 8:45-3:45, which is going to require some serious rethinking of our sports practices. Teams get limited practice times in the gym now with 2:45 dismissal. And as a working parent, that 8:45 start time is challenging, although slightly better than the current start time of 8:55.

  • 58. TwinMom  |  May 22, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    cpsobsessed: my twins attend your son’s school; where did you hear the new start time? I’ve been anxiously waiting as one of the twins will be going to a different school next year and I’m trying to figure out how we’re going to stagger it. 8:45 – 3:45 would be AWESOME for that, but I haven’t seen the official word anywhere.

  • 59. kiki h.  |  May 22, 2012 at 1:20 pm

    @52, because some of us just aren’t early morning types. Traffic is irrelevant.

  • 60. HPMom  |  May 22, 2012 at 1:27 pm

    Ray’s schedule will be 8:45am-3:45pm. The current schedule is 9am-3:30pm.

  • 61. anonymous (the first)  |  May 22, 2012 at 1:32 pm

    anyone hear if nscp has gotten a waiver?

  • 62. Mom  |  May 22, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    ohhh. wish I had the option not to be an “early morning type”

  • 63. OgdenParent  |  May 22, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    Ogden will be
    M-Th – 8:45-4:00
    F – 8:45-2:45

  • 64. Decatur Info  |  May 22, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    Decatur will be 8:15-3:30

  • 65. anonymous (the first)  |  May 22, 2012 at 3:01 pm

    Burley is 8 am to 2:45 pm — a 6 hour and 45 min hour day.

  • 66. cpsobsessed  |  May 22, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    Decatur longer than 7 hrs?

    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

  • 67. EastLoopMom  |  May 22, 2012 at 3:48 pm

    @ cpsobsessed- I am puzzled as well concerning a school day that is longer than 7 hours as it is my understanding that Ogden is looking to have children in school for 7 hours and 15 minutes Monday -Thursday.

  • 68. Kelly  |  May 22, 2012 at 4:53 pm

    Peirce is 8 – 3

  • 69. Mayfair Dad  |  May 22, 2012 at 5:08 pm

    “…Sharkey identified as a total membership of 25,000, that means nearly 80 percent of all members favored rejection of the latest proposal. That result is more than the minimum 75 percent of all CTU members required by a new state law to authorize a teachers strike in Chicago.

    CTU officials have said that the law was intended to set an “insurmountable” strike threshold, so they were “very happy” with the straw poll results.

    However, Chicago Public School officials contend the version of the contract proposal CTU members were given during the straw poll was slanted and filled with inaccuracies, so the result is slanted and inaccurate, too. ”

  • 70. CPS Parent  |  May 22, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    @61 anonymous (the first) – a waiver from what?

  • 71. Lasalle 2 mom  |  May 22, 2012 at 5:22 pm

    I think the reason why the school day at Ogden is longer is because they get out early on Friday . They are on a high school schedule.
    But also Ogden has always had a different schedule from longer day to not taking Pulaski day and other city holidays. Ken Staral has always made things happen for his school.

  • 72. onemorecpsmom  |  May 22, 2012 at 5:45 pm

    PD = professional development

  • 73. EastLoopMom  |  May 22, 2012 at 5:58 pm

    @71 Lasalle 2 mom- I so hear that. We love Ogden! If I had a child in the later grades, I am sure I would feel differently. I have a little girl entering kindergarten. She was due on August 24th, born on July 18th. She refuses to take a nap. I am wildly concerned about her ability to perform/behave well so late in the day. We also have many after school activities that are important to her/us. She just missed the cutoff for SE admissions for both gifted and classical and we can’t rule out a late round offer. Even though Ogden would be our first choice for many reasons, we are unfortunately looking to start and end of day school times to guide us at this point.

  • 74. anonymouseteacher  |  May 22, 2012 at 6:37 pm

    Sure 41. PD is professional development. Since CPS cut a number of PD days those have to be made up because the hours are required by the state. So, all teachers will have to complete 75 minutes of PD per week. This can happen weekly, bi-weekly or monthly. Schools can do 75 minutes once a week after school or bi-weekly/monthly in 2.5 or 5 hour increments on Saturdays.

    As for why I believe sports and enrichment programs will change drastically, I have two reasons. One is with the death of Maggie Daley, her program after school matters which used to fund many after school programs in CPS has not been able to maintain its fundraising to supply grants to schools. There was a huge article in the paper a few weeks back (I don’t have link) and the future of the program is in serious jeopardy.
    Secondly, as teachers will be working a longer day, I don’t believe most will be available to work after school programs either on a paid basis or volunteer basis (both occur regularly in CPS). Take for example Teacher X at my school. Teacher X represents our staff well. Currently Teacher X has a classroom from 8:55-2:45. Teacher X works in the building from 8-4 p.m. Teacher X works in the after school enrichment program on Mondays from 2:45-3:45 and on Mondays stays in the building until 5 p.m. Next school year, Teacher X will have a classroom from 8-3. She will be working in the building from 7-4. She will have mandatory PD on, say Tuesdays, from 3-4:15, meaning those days, she stays and works in the building until 5:15. When teacher X looks at her life and also factors in the 10-20 additional hours of work she puts in at home, the longer work hours and the additional PD time, she will not sign up to teach in the after school program.
    Does that make sense?
    Families that want after school enrichment and sports ON TOP of the extended day can look and see if it is valuable enough to them to have such things. They can then organize with the principal to hire outside coaches and outside teachers to provide such programs at a fee. I can tell you that my school had a show of hands to see how many teachers would be interested in working the after school program next year that we traditionally have had (for pay). We usually have 15-20 staff members who work it. Only 2 people raised their hands indicating their availability and they are both teacher assistants. All of our teachers have expressed that they cannot work an additional hour or more per day in the regular classroom, an additional 75 minutes per week in PD time and additional time at home to plan and assess the extra minutes during the day AND also work after school. Nearly everyone asked indicated that they cannot give any more time.
    The advantage in outside groups coming in is a wide array of classes and sports offered. The disadvantage is that most schools don’t have families who can afford to pay for these services. Coaches and specialty teachers are not cheap. Perhaps some grants that used to pay CPS staff, if they can still be secured, could be used to pay outside personnel. That might help the 90% of kids who cannot afford to shell out $500+ a season in order to pay a basketball coach. I would also imagine that parents will be increasingly called upon to volunteer their time to coach or sponsor clubs.

  • 75. anonymouseteacher  |  May 22, 2012 at 6:40 pm

    @41, as I understand it, the early release time that high schools have will be used for PD, not for clubs. Am I mistaken? If so, when will high school teachers do their mandatory PD?

  • 76. cpsobsessed  |  May 22, 2012 at 6:50 pm

    @twinmom, someone who goes to the LSC meetings told me about the times.
    I am under the impression that the school is appealing for 8:30-3:30 so maybe they’re waiting to hear about that to announce it?

    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

  • 77. HS Mom  |  May 22, 2012 at 7:16 pm

    @74 – Your post in 27 was a response to @19 about high school sports. To say that people will need to pay to privately coach high school athletes (even though some people do that anyway) because teachers will be too busy is a pretty strong statement. Everything you say above may be true about elementary after school programs – even then I’m sure this will vary from school to school. Ours did not have much in the way of sports and only then with volunteers.

    Not sure how professional development will be scheduled. There doesn’t seem to be many PD days now.

  • 78. WPM  |  May 22, 2012 at 7:16 pm

    Anyone heard about Hawthorne?

  • 79. SoxSideIrish4  |  May 22, 2012 at 7:25 pm

    #74~this is what you are referring to: ‘ISBE has recommended zero dollars for After School Matters in FY 2013, but Quinn proposed $2.5 million, the same as for FY 2012.’ So far, we don’t know if that is going to happen.

    What will happen is that park activities and library activities will be cut and then then they will slowly cut hours/programs and the library will once again close more days like RAHM wanted. It’s sad.

    #77~no what #74 will directly hurt hs more than elementary schools and ppl will have to get private coaches. Ours have coaches that are known in the state on many levels.

  • 80. SoxSideIrish4  |  May 22, 2012 at 7:34 pm

    Here’s some fluff Q&A from Brizard~wish they would have asked in depth questions w/follow up.

  • 81. tier4mom  |  May 22, 2012 at 7:55 pm

    Can anyone tell me the Lincoln start time?

  • 82. funny:)  |  May 22, 2012 at 8:18 pm

    Burley is 8 to 3.
    Anybody know when Jones starts at???

  • 83. Decatur Info  |  May 22, 2012 at 8:45 pm

    @ 66 That was the time given at the LSC meeting. They probably use the extra 15 minutes to get everyone to their buses.

  • 84. Lasalle II parent  |  May 22, 2012 at 8:58 pm

    @83 yes the lttle secret about bussing is that the kids get out at least 15 minutes earlier then the walkers. So between breakfast in the classroom and bussing. they miss 30 minutes of class time. That is a plus with Lasalle 2 bus schedules dont get in the way of instructional time.

  • 85. Jen K  |  May 22, 2012 at 9:02 pm

    @83 My friend at Decatur said she received a letter home today saying the hours are 8:15 – 3:15 next year.

  • 86. anonymouseteacher  |  May 22, 2012 at 9:17 pm

    High school teachers are currently the high school coaches, no? If high school teachers are spending their available time at work on extra instruction,they may not have the time to coach or lead clubs at 3:45 or 4 or 4:30 or whenever school gets out. It isn’t that different from elementary. It is just prioritizing, and sometimes to make room for one thing, you have to eliminate another. I don’t think it is a stretch to say a lot of staff that previously spent their time coaching or other enrichment things will not be available because they’ve used all their available time on instruction.

  • 87. anotherchicagoparent  |  May 22, 2012 at 9:37 pm

    @82 Jones was appealing their new 7.30 start time.They were trying to maintain their 8 a.m start.They were confident it would go through but I haven’t heard anything yet.

  • 88. Coonley mom  |  May 22, 2012 at 10:45 pm

    So is coonley 845 or 830? I know, not much difference, but I’m seeing differ things posted on different sites. Thanks!

  • 89. Albany Parker  |  May 22, 2012 at 10:50 pm

    @88, not sure about Coonley, but in some cases 15m can make a difference. For our school, a start time that is 15m earlier than last year means that we won’t have time to drop one kid off at pre-school at 1 school and still make it to the CPS school on time for the other kid. Drat.

  • 90. Burley mom  |  May 22, 2012 at 11:20 pm

    Burley principal said 8-2:45 at LSC mtg last night but then today notice said 8-3. She said something about banking 15 minutes per day for teachers- anyone know what that means?

  • 91. HS Mom  |  May 22, 2012 at 11:31 pm

    @86 – HS has teachers and PE coaches. I would never speculate what the extra 30 mins would do to someones schedule but I’m going to guess that since some of these sports requires multiple hours of practice plus games etc there will still be people willing to coach. What you’re proposing – individuals having to hire private coaches for their kids – sounds a bit extreme.

  • 92. Cpsmom5  |  May 22, 2012 at 11:33 pm

    8:45-3:45, after school tutoring 4:00-5:00 (T-Th).
    Sports practices M/F 7:45-8:45 or 3:45-4:45
    A livable plan

  • 93. Coonley mom  |  May 23, 2012 at 12:08 am

    @92, which school?

  • 94. TwinMom  |  May 23, 2012 at 1:38 am

    Crap. Coonley is 8:30 – 3:30. I had hoped for 8:45 – 3:45, because it’s going to be rough trying to pick up my kids from two different schools (that 15 minutes makes a huge difference in terms of the “window” for getting from one school to the other). Drop off won’t be a problem; we can always drop off the first kid early….but that makes our two-school pickup situation pretty tight. I wish Coonley hadn’t appealed and had stuck with the 8:45-3:45 schedule.. 😦

  • 95. cpsobsessed  |  May 23, 2012 at 6:08 am

    Yep, coonley won their appeal and will be 8:30-3:30.
    Selfishly, my son liked having 30 min on the playground before school, which will now require going to be earlier.
    I’ll be very curious to see if we get less homework next year since they’re at school longer. I’m guessing not.

    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

  • 96. Parent and CPS Employee  |  May 23, 2012 at 6:57 am

    @91, as an example on the HS level: my official work day ends this year at 2:45. I work with an after school program until 4:15, then go home to kids at 4:20 (I’m very lucky to live right around the corner from my workplace). Next year, my work day ends at 4:20. To extend my childcare to almost 6 pm on a daily basis (in order to stay the 1.5 hours I am this year) would be too expensive in childcare costs, unfortunately, so I’m not going to be able to take on the duties that I took on this year and the seven years previously that I’ve been working at my school. The issue is the same for many of my colleagues (including coaches) with children. I’m pretty sad about it, as after-school clubs, organizations, and programs were one of my favorite parts of the job.

  • 97. Skinner West  |  May 23, 2012 at 7:04 am

    Does anyone know start/end time?

  • 98. hunnykrisp  |  May 23, 2012 at 8:22 am

    Burley students got letters sent home (unless teachers forgot). And the new timing is 8-3. 8th graders didn’t receive since they are graduating.

    Anybody know about jones?

  • 99. HS Mom  |  May 23, 2012 at 9:16 am

    @98 – 8:00 on Jones

  • 100. sfw  |  May 23, 2012 at 9:45 am

    Peirce is 8 am to 3 pm. Does anyone else think these longer days ultimately may not happen, and the whole thing is a bargaining chip the mayor’s office created for teachers’ union negotiations?

  • 101. cpsobsessed  |  May 23, 2012 at 9:49 am

    Brizard said “nobody wants a stike to happen.”. On the other hand, after all of Rahms longer day ranting, I’d be surprised to see him back off entirely. I guess 6.5 is a number perhaps we could all feel comfortable with and maybe that’s the goal.
    If we end up there after all this, I’m gonna be pissed about the mental time wasted.
    Maybe it wasn’t a waste. We’ve had some good discussions here about it and RYH and the union have both been vocal about the need for a quality day. And that has been a good thing…

    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

  • 102. abc123  |  May 23, 2012 at 10:16 am

    @28 Of course they asked for more info, to buy themselves time to come up with something, bc we all know it is highly unlikely that cps actually performed these detailed traffic/safety/weather studies.

    When they respond to your FOIA request, please post! I think by law they only have a certain time window to get you the info, right?

  • 103. MM  |  May 23, 2012 at 10:19 am

    South Loop main building: 8:30-3:30
    South Loop branch building (kindergarten): 8:00-3:00
    For the past three years, the start times were only 15 min apart (main building 9:00, branch 8:45).

  • 104. cpsmama  |  May 23, 2012 at 11:25 am

    @61- it is my understanding that no schools will get waivers from the FSD. NSCP included.

  • 105. Coach  |  May 23, 2012 at 11:48 am

    Cps simply does not plan things well. They are in such a rush to implement the full day and they cannot even afford it. What am I suppose to do next year when I have to stay at school longer for a mandatory PD day and my team has a game? All elementary teams and some high school teams only have 1 coach. Most people would quickly say reschedule the game but the other coach may have their PD day on another day of the week. I coach 2 high school teams and 1 elementary team and during certain seasons like softball we may play 6 games a week. Every school will have different start and end times that will not be easy to juggle. If a school is getting out of school later the students will be receiving more early dismissals. During football season we start practice at 3:30pm and by the end of the season we have to cut practice short and start games by 3:30 because lack of sun light is a huge issue. Unless you put lights in all the facilities, programs will not be able to exist.I have coached 3 sports for nearly 15 years and love it. If things stay the same I will only be able to coach 1 sport for sure ,and maybe a second(but not sure it is worth my time). The spring sport will have to go because we have too many games that I would need to leave early for in order to make it to games.

  • 106. local  |  May 23, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    LIVE tweeting now over at district299 blog of the CPS Board meeting.

  • 107. DomiDad  |  May 23, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    So, Waters is 8:45 to 3:45. Does that mean the drop-off time is 8:45? Or can I drop my son off earlier than that without paying for before care? (Pardon my ignorance – he’s starting kindergarten – this is our first foray into CPS!)

  • 108. kate  |  May 23, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    100/101 – every so often you hear that principal/teacher/posters refer to “banked” time in next years schedule. My theory : the district is telling them to “bank” the time in case those minutes are negotiated away. Just above @90 referred to “banking”…. I think this allows schools to make plans and begin preparations for longer day, and in case the 7 hours doesn’t happen, the schedules can be easily amended. Agree/disagree?

    So, my expectation is that we (elem.) will end up with a 6:45 day. The 1 hour extension will roughly consist of: 45 min. recess/lunch + 15 min. more “instructional” time. But that’s because I’m a concensus gal. Anybody else think 7 won’t stick?

  • 109. SutherlandParent  |  May 23, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    @107, you would have to check with your school about earlier drop off. It seems to vary quite a bit from school to school. At our school, we have very limited before- and after-school activities (fee-based band and choir, some sports for older grades, limited tutoring, etc.). Our principal is also quite strict about not allowing children on school grounds until 15 minutes before school starts, which is currently 8:55 am and will be 8:45 am in the fall.

  • 110. Lincoln  |  May 23, 2012 at 1:24 pm

    @81 Lincoln is 8:45 to 3:45. Not much difference as we already had a longer school day than most.

  • 111. Re: Skinner West  |  May 23, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    Skinner West received 8:45 to 3:45 which was being appealed to 8:30 to 3:30. Don’t know if Skinner West won its appeal.

  • 112. mom2  |  May 23, 2012 at 2:04 pm

    Just as the teachers are asking for a 30% raise, CPS started asking for 7 1/2 hours. Now it is down to 7 and waiting for CTU to ask for less. Back and forth we go. I assume we will end up with 6 1/2 for elementary and maybe 7 for high school – not sure.

    I think the start times are too late – especially for high school. If they stay at 7 1/2 hours, and since they don’t provide busing, why not start at 7:15 or 7:30 so it doesn’t totally affect after school clubs and sports?

  • 113. cpsobsessed  |  May 23, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    @mom2 – the high school me from 1982 is cursing you for suggesting a 7:15 start time!!!!!
    That seems so dreadfully early to me, esp if kids have several hours of homework and/have to take a city bus. Ugh!

    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

  • 114. also obsessed  |  May 23, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    @107. If it’s like this year, Waters lineup bell will ring 5 minutes earlier, at 8:40, at which point the teachers come to the door and get the kids. (Then you can drop him 🙂 ) There is an early birds program – it is tuiition based. I think there are 2 payment choices…a longer and a shorter one. You can call the office about that. The principal does not allow children in the school before the bells ring, although some come for free breakfast in the cafeteria beforehand. You do need to be with your child during breakfast, though, if you ever choose to do that, as staff is not set up to watch them all.

  • 115. mom2  |  May 23, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    @cpsobsessed – you are right. the high school me from 1980 is furious with me, too! Sorry about that. We started at 8 and that was early enough. Just trying to find a way for all this to work.

  • 116. cpsobsessed  |  May 23, 2012 at 2:53 pm

    Haha, I had to get up early to straighten my hair and that took forever.

    I hear ya – too much to fit into one day. How did it work back then? Less homework? Fewer activities?

    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

  • 117. mom2  |  May 23, 2012 at 2:58 pm

    I do think there was less homework. I don’t have memories of spending hours on homework. Maybe 45 minutes when I first got home and then some large projects that spanned a few weekends.

    I recall staying after school for things and there was a 4:30 bus to bring you home after those activities and sometimes we went back to school after dinner for other events/practices. Teachers didn’t appear to have an issue with any of that.

  • 118. MSJ  |  May 23, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    Hawthorne’s day with be 8-3.

  • 119. RL Julia  |  May 23, 2012 at 4:57 pm

    Taft AC currently starts at 7:30 which means that my son leaves the house to get on either the school bus or the CTA at 6:20. I used to think I was a morning person until I had two years of this schedule.

  • 120. chicagodancer22  |  May 23, 2012 at 7:18 pm

    so jones will be 8-3:30?

  • 121. mia  |  May 23, 2012 at 7:46 pm

    I thought everyone was supposed to start at the same time. Wasn’t that something Brizzard talked about last month?

    Ugh…and while the teachers are still the bad guys, I want to know how to get this job:

    What exactly will be her job? Resume reader? I don’t think the cleveland schools are doing all that well, are they?

  • 122. falconergrad  |  May 23, 2012 at 8:34 pm

    @117 They probably did not appear to have an issue with it because they were being paid fairly for all of their work. Also, I would guess that their whole day was carefully structured to make all of that possible.

  • 123. SoxSideIrish4  |  May 23, 2012 at 8:38 pm

    @117~you probably don’t remember bc research has shown most ppl remember family things not school work…you had homework, did it and then did friend and family time.

  • 124. radiomike65  |  May 23, 2012 at 8:42 pm

    Any word on start times for Farnsworth elem?

  • 125. Diabolical Unplugged  |  May 23, 2012 at 8:44 pm

    @40 Mayfair Dad: “Also very happy to be at the best elementary school in the city.” You’re welcome.

  • 126. Cpsmom5  |  May 23, 2012 at 11:25 pm

    Love the show of teacher push back downtown 🙂

  • 127. Teachercps  |  May 23, 2012 at 11:27 pm

    The march was great!!

  • 128. cpsobsessed  |  May 23, 2012 at 11:44 pm,0,1314979.story

    That is a powerful showing.
    I learned at the Brizard meeting (and it’s in this article) that a committee is reviewing both sides’ issues as a mediator, and it’s not until after that when the teachers can vote to strike or not.

    So Rahm wants 2% this year, nothing next year. That’s about on par with my current situation and truthfully, it sucks.

    Teachers want a 30% raise? *** I don’t know how to comment on that.

  • 129. Paul  |  May 24, 2012 at 7:02 am

    My understanding is that the union will have its members vote to authorize a strike before the end of the school year and before the mediator’s report it out. Then, if the mediator’s report is unacceptable to the union leadership, they’ll have the authority to strike.

    I propose that parents get the same wages and annual raises as teachers. The average wage in Chicago is about $25 per hour, and the average wage for teachers is $40-$75 per hour.

  • 130. Angie  |  May 24, 2012 at 7:41 am

    Have the teachers seen the actual CPS proposal before agreeing to strike? Somehow, I doubt it. It seems that they are marching and voting based on the BS spin that CTU is feeding them.,0,6520385.story

    “But if teachers are asked to authorize a strike now, they’ll be working on vastly incomplete information. Union leaders can’t tell their members what’s in a new deal for them because … there is no deal. They’re in the middle of this process. Teachers don’t know what the final offer will be.

    “As a former teacher myself, I can’t believe you would ask a teacher to take a vote on something as important as whether to go on strike without knowing what the actual offer is,” Robin Steans of the reform group Advance Illinois told us. “That strikes me as the ultimate disrespect of teachers.””

  • 131. anotherchicagoparent  |  May 24, 2012 at 8:44 am

    Is anyone else worried about the amount of assessment our children are taking? I heard that kids would have to take 18-26 assessments next year besides regular classroom tests,finals and AP tests.I also heard older kids would have to take Explore,Plan or ACT twice next year.Is this TRUE, does anyone know? Does anyone know how this compares to previous years? It seems like this year every four weeks my children our taking some kind of scantron test.

  • 132. Mayfair Dad  |  May 24, 2012 at 8:51 am

    @125 DU: It takes a village!

  • 133. mom2  |  May 24, 2012 at 8:57 am

    Why on Earth would anyone vote to strike before they know the offer? That’s ridiculous and baffling.

    @cpsobsessed 128 – Agree.

  • 134. HS Mom  |  May 24, 2012 at 9:11 am

    @129 This is certainly something that many people think about – not only parents. Ever talk to any of your co-workers who have no kids or kids in private?

    @131 – HS kids take Explore and PLAN twice now. It’s no big deal. It’s really done for the teacher to gauge if they are progressing well for the big tests Junior year. ACT is given in April so there is no way to test twice. Students are allowed to retake to raise scores.

  • 135. Angie  |  May 24, 2012 at 9:27 am

    @128. cpsobsessed: “So Rahm wants 2% this year, nothing next year. That’s about on par with my current situation and truthfully, it sucks.”

    2% is the raise teachers currently get just for showing up. That’s not all they are going to get :

    “CTU Claim: A one-time 2% raise with lanes and steps frozen; nothing in years 2, 3, 4 and 5 unless we agree to test-based merit pay and the elimination of lanes and steps.

    Facts: One of CPS’s bargaining goals is to implement a new compensation system that is designed to reward and retain high quality teachers, teachers who assume roles in hard-to-staff subjects or high-need schools and teachers who assume mentor or leadership roles within their schools. For example, teachers that work in hard to fill positions would receive additional compensation for taking those roles.

    To this end, CPS has proposed moving to a differentiated pay system, not a merit pay system. CPS has further proposed and that a CPS-CTU committee to be formed by January 1, 2013 to negotiate a mutually agreeable new compensation plan to become effective July 1, 2014. Until a new plan is in place, CPS has offered a cost of living increase consistent with its fiscal constraints of 2% effective July 1, 2012 with freezes on both step and lane increases.”

  • 136. JulieF  |  May 24, 2012 at 9:30 am

    State law doesn’t say anything about when a strike vote can be taken. It’s CPS’s bed – they and Stand for Children pushed for this exact timeline and vote requirements in SB7, and the only way for the CTU to realistically attempt it is before the end of the school year. Now that CPS has to live with their own rules, they can’t complain when teachers overwhelmingly are rejecting what’s on offer.

    And teachers DO know what’s on offer – the mediator isn’t going to change the offer, just issue a nonbonding recommendation. What’s on offer is a 2% raise over 5 years for working 20% more. Simple as that. Plus no firm language on class size, increases in health care costs, added to the fact that test scores will count toward a teacher’s evaluation among so many other things – what’s not to see plainly that it’s worth rejecting?

    If my kids see their teachers standing up for themselves and fighting for what’s right, even if it means some temporary hardship for us, it’s a lesson I’m thrilled for them to learn.

  • 137. Lasalle 2 mom  |  May 24, 2012 at 9:34 am

    Time to start a CTU thread – Early start thread has been hijacked, LOL!

  • 138. jusand  |  May 24, 2012 at 9:43 am

    I don’t understand what the big deal is about taking assessments? don’t you want to know how your kid is doing?I do. I love tests. I also like the fact that CPS teaches the kids how to take a test (I’m not talking about ISAT prep taking- so pouncing). i definitely feel like my kids are ahead of the game when it comes to test taking. you cant get away from them- ACT, SAT, MCAT, LSAT, Police Officer Tests, etc. They’re everywhere- even to get a job at Michaels, you have to take a “test.”

  • 139. cpsobsessed  |  May 24, 2012 at 9:54 am

    Those tests are all once a year or once-before employment or once before college tests.
    I feel like 2 times a year – start and finish make sense. Or a short assessment that helps teacher figure out where to direct attention and differentiate, as a teacher on here has discussed can be helpful.

    I haven’t heard that kids will take THAT many tests. *Seems* unlikely. Is doubt kids are even allowed to take the ACT that much.

    But more than 2-3 a year makes school boring and takes away from learning time, no?

    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

  • 140. Angie  |  May 24, 2012 at 10:06 am

    @136. JulieF: “And teachers DO know what’s on offer – the mediator isn’t going to change the offer, just issue a nonbonding recommendation. ”

    Are you a teacher? If so, have you actually seen the entire text of CPS proposal?

  • 141. kiki h.  |  May 24, 2012 at 10:12 am

    I really don’t mind the Scantron. I like that it’s 3x/year. It helps me understand how my kids are doing. Dibels doesn’t bother me either. I found the over-the-top ISAT prep objectionable, and the high-stakes nature of it bothers me too. I also don’t understand why the scores can’t come in sooner than June. So if my daughter bombed it, even with her good grades, I’ll have to lose all that camp money and send her to CPS summer school? Gah.

  • 142. mom2  |  May 24, 2012 at 10:29 am

    “So if my daughter bombed it, even with her good grades, I’ll have to lose all that camp money and send her to CPS summer school? Gah.” – That is one of the most frustrating things in the world. How can they do that? Totally insane.

  • 143. JulieF  |  May 24, 2012 at 10:55 am

    @Angie: I’m not a teacher, but I talk to my kids’ teachers often. They are getting regular contract updates from the union The union’s bargaining committee has 40 rank-and-file teachers on it. Teachers have seen the new schedules for their school and the board’s salary offer. It’s not rocket science to know if you think that’s a fair offer. They obviously don’t, or there wouldn’t have been 6,000 of them (1 in 4 in of all CPS teachers) rallying yesterday.

  • 144. anonymous (the first)  |  May 24, 2012 at 10:57 am

    There are far too many standardized tests in elementary school now. Teachers do test prep — honest-to-goodness, fill-in-the-bubble test prep — for weeks at a time. They have to because so much is at stake. Now teachers will be evaluated on student test scores.

    Starting next year, the high schools will add 6 tests per grade.

    It is a serious problem.

  • 145. Gunnery Sgt Hartman  |  May 24, 2012 at 11:13 am

    30% over two years? What city do they live in? Dubai?

    We’re ok with the 8-3 schedule at Burley, we were hoping for 8:30-3;30, but this is acceptable.

  • 146. cpsobsessed  |  May 24, 2012 at 11:15 am

    Speaking of bubbles, my son is the messiest at it. We did some isat practice at home and it was a mess. I had him assure me he is good about it at school, but sadly I saw his whole life hinging on his bubble-filling ability (as well as his teachers’ assessments.)

    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

  • 147. wyomom  |  May 24, 2012 at 11:24 am

    @144 I completely agree with you on the over the top test prep. My child’s school repeatedly states they do not teach to the test yet this year they were graded on ISAT practice tests. The 6 weeks or so from the time they returned from winter break until the ISAT’s was devoted to test prep and they were graded on most of it. There was not one social studies lesson in all that time…….how is that a rich and varied curriculum. Had science not been on the ISAT this year there probably would have been very little time devoted to that subject too. Standardized tests have their place but we are going in the wrong direction when so much class tie is devoted to test prep. And if teacher compensation is based, even in part, on standardized test scores it is going to get even worse. And dibbles……..please, what a waste of time and money. In the beginning of first grade my daughter was “at risk” for learning how to read……..she was reading chapter books at that point and even the teacher shook her head.

  • 148. Senn partnership with Loyola U IB obsessed  |  May 24, 2012 at 11:36 am

    Anonymous the First- What 6 tests per grade will the HSs be adding? Explore andor PLAN ? Given every 6 weeks?

  • 149. HS Mom  |  May 24, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Yes @144 – what is the source of your information? How is it that you have information that the high school teachers do not have?

  • 150. SoxSideIrish4  |  May 24, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    #144~they’ve already started this year, ~ My 9th grader has had waaaay 2many tests this year and still has another one on June 1st. That will be his 6th test. Next year we are only letting him take 1 test and that’s it. We will opt out of the others.

  • 151. SoxSideIrish4  |  May 24, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    As for CPS/Rahm~he wants a 7 hour day but can’t pay for it. Until he can adequately pay for the school day~meaning not laying off teachers, paying for art/pe/music/world language~and keeping class sizes small (which just passed in the senate)~he shouldn’t have started it this year. He should have worked on CRIME/GANGS and then worked w/teachers not had pr stunts instead.

    The problem w/Rahm is that he and Stand 4Children pushed through a law that required 75% of union approve. Problem was, he never thought the law he so desperately wanted to break the union would be the ONE that would UNITE the union! So too bad for Rahm.

  • 152. Senn partnership with Loyola U IB obsessed  |  May 24, 2012 at 12:15 pm

    @150 Please elaborate. WHAT tests?

  • 153. Waitingmom  |  May 24, 2012 at 12:16 pm

    Wildwood IB will be 8:45-3:45
    Thorp academy will be 7:45-2:45
    And the one that infuriates me is
    Lane Tech will be 8:30-4:00

    My husband who teaches at Lane says they are indeed fighting it as the time was different than the one they were given before the appeal deadline.

  • 154. mom2  |  May 24, 2012 at 12:40 pm

    Why would Lane need to have a time set by CPS? They don’t provide busing to the students so why can’t they set their own time? What’s wrong with starting the same time that they do now? Is this because of the LTAC? If they must start so late, will they start doing clubs and team practices before school? What about games? Will kids have to miss school and end up with less instruction instead of more?

  • 155. HS Mom  |  May 24, 2012 at 12:55 pm

    Some of the issue with HS start times, particularly selectives, is the long commutes that some kids have. This is why some SEHS have appealed the early start times. Has anyone not been granted a revised time on appeal? @153 yeah, I would imagine an un-appealed change would be a problem.

  • 156. Northside Mom  |  May 24, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    Just because teachers may have a strike vote before summer, does not necessarily mean that they will strike. I also don’t have a problem with them taking the vote without knowing exactly what is being offered because it is the only thing that will give them any leverage in negotiations.

    SB7 took away so many of their rights to a fair contract process, I don’t see any other way for CTU to have any negotiating strength without a successful strike vote and that can only succeed before summer break.

  • 157. SoxSideIrish4  |  May 24, 2012 at 1:40 pm

    #152~he took the Explore upon entering 9th grade, the new HS Interim tests (they are quarterly), and now the new post Explore test in on June 1st. This does NOT include any AP testing and I really can’t remember if he took any others. These are all implemented by CPS. I don’t know any other HS district that take all those tests. But I believe that next yr grammar schools will have many more tests as well.

    #156~I don’t have a problem w/a strike vote b4 summer either. Then when the time comes to either strike or not strike they will be ready.

    Ppl often 4get that old adage~bcareful what you ask for you might get it. Rahm asked for SB7 and he got it…never thinking the teachers would unite bc of it! He’s gotta be kicking himself and feeling like a fool…since he looks like one. Esp since CTU had more marchers than NATO!

  • 158. HS Mom  |  May 24, 2012 at 1:58 pm

    @157 “the new HS Interim tests (they are quarterly)”

    Please explain exactly what this, what’s involved and what the tests are used for – if you know. Any other Whitney Young 9th graders with the same experience?

  • 159. mom2  |  May 24, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    So, those of you that feel teachers should get a 30% raise…where should CPS get this huge amount of money? If found, you agree that it should be used to first to pay teachers 30% more rather than and before paying for other things such as supplies, fixing the buildings, etc.? You also believe that all teachers, regardless of any other factor, should get this 30% increase. If not found, you believe CPS should go back/continue to having/have the shortest day (compared to other big cities) and the teachers must still get their past promised 4% raise and regular increases? We were broke before all this, so not sure where the money will come from. Just trying to understand…
    Even Rahm said teachers should get a raise, just nowhere close to 30%, right?
    Singed me – just a parent with no ties to anything and someone that loves nearly all my children’s teachers (just not every single one of them).

  • 160. Waitingmom  |  May 24, 2012 at 2:37 pm

    @mom2. I have no idea why CPS needs to get involved. Right now HS starts at 8 and AC at 7:15 I believe. I don’t know why we can’t keep our strt time the same. My son isn’t home until past 5pm now with his after school stuff. It really is crazy. Some kids won’t get home until 7 or later. When does homework get done? My son was used to a 7:50 start at elementary school so he would be fine even starting at 7:30 so he could be done sooner. Once again CPS shows how stupid they are.

  • 161. cpsobsessed  |  May 24, 2012 at 2:39 pm

    ….And not touching the pension plan, and not touching healthcare.
    And the list of 10 major improvements the system needs.

    All valid. But when combined it feels extreme.

    As does CPS’ side: Asking for all these concessions from teachers at once at the same time as extending the working day and year. That’s a lot of changes.

    I guess that is all part of the bargaining process. But I want to say “c’mon!” to both sides, I think.

    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

  • 162. JulieF  |  May 24, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    @Mom2 – I actually don’t think a 30% raise is necessary at all. Just keep the school day as it was, move to an open campus model of 6.5 hr day with recess and teacher lunch in the middle of the day, give teachers a fair raise and call it a day. Problem solved. Raise Your Hand made this case very effectively last year. You only need a big raise to go along with an ill-considered, unfunded, unplanned, longest-in-the-nation school day.

  • 163. SoxSideIrish4  |  May 24, 2012 at 2:52 pm

    @158 Walter Payton took them too, I believe all HS did this yr. They are taken on the computer and you get your score right away (I can’t remember the name of the test). Students received their scores right then after finishing the test~this assessment is quarterly and is to help teachers see where the child is in regards to the class. Next yr he’ll also have to take the PLAN and then the Post Plan (new). Again that doesn’t include any AP tests.

    @159~I don’t know what a fair raise is~I do believe they deserve one. Also, I don’t want my son having an UNFUNDED 7hr day just to have recess and then adding time to core classes~that’s NOT a good day. My son can go outside when he gets home~also, it will be a drastic change in sports. The park district will be cutting down their hours for the fall and programs will not be there. The only thing they’ve told me is that they will follow CPS schedule, which means daylight will be gone and programs cut.

  • 164. SoxSideIrish4  |  May 24, 2012 at 2:54 pm

    In all the large cities~ CPS has the highest gr rate of 71%. But CPS never talks abt that.

  • 165. mom2  |  May 24, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    @162 – Why would the teachers need a raise at all if they just move their lunch to the middle of the day and work the same amount of hours that they currently work (adding 45 minutes to the end instead of ending before their lunch starts)? Also, I think the question of what is a “fair” raise is a big one – everyone has a different opinion on that.

  • 166. mom2  |  May 24, 2012 at 3:09 pm

    Oh, would the raise be for working more days than they currently work (because of Pulaski day, etc.)? Maybe CPS could afford that.

  • 167. mom2  |  May 24, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    @160 – I’d be fine with 7:30 or 8:00, too. (Although, as cpsobsessed and I said before, my old high-school self would have hated 7:30). 8:30 is crazy, especially when the current start time is earlier and working fine.

  • 168. IB obsessed  |  May 24, 2012 at 3:34 pm

    Are you all forgetting the research that showed that teenagers have a biological need to sleep late? Brains that don’t shut down until late at night AND need for 9-10 hours. Any school that starts earlier than 8am is deal breaker for me. Not going to fight to get my kid up every morning. She has to be called 2 or 3x currently at 7:15 and she’s not even officially a teenager. How do the AC kid and parents do it?

  • 169. SutherlandParent  |  May 24, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    Sorry to drag comments further off-topic, but we’d had a lively conversation earlier about neighborhood/non-SEHSs as options. Today, our neighborhood elementary school sent home a list of where 8th graders are attending, and out of 76, 6 are going to Morgan Park HS, one into the IB program there, 24 to the Chicago Ag School and 2 to ChiArts. (Of the SEHSs, one is going to Jones, 1 to Lindblom and 4 to Whitney Young.) Being in Beverly, we also have a large percentage going to Catholic school. Curious where grads from other schools are attending, that aren’t SEHS–a topic for another day maybe?

  • 170. Chris  |  May 24, 2012 at 4:23 pm

    “Again that doesn’t include any AP tests.”

    That’s totally optional. It’s like holding the SAT against CPS.

  • 171. Chris  |  May 24, 2012 at 4:37 pm

    “Also, I think the question of what is a “fair” raise is a big one – everyone has a different opinion on that.”

    As has been said much in the private sector recently “your bonus is that you get to keep your job”.

  • 172. falconergrad  |  May 24, 2012 at 4:44 pm

    @129 Salary and benefits are negotiable in most jobs. If you are not happy with yours, then try to change it. Or make a plan to leave for a new job. Teachers are united to do this negotiating as a group rather than each for themselves. If teachers negotiated separately, CPS would need more HR people (cha-ching!) and would probably wind up paying more in salary and benefits to teachers. It’s my guess that more teachers in the system are underpaid relative to the value of their work rather than overpaid. It’s true in my profession, which is also predominantly female.

    I wonder how everyone will respond to the upcoming police contract negotiations? Another poorly understood group with a few bad apples. But male female ratios are pretty much reversed from CPS teachers, I believe. Will they get the respect the teachers deserve(d)?

  • 173. cpsobsessed  |  May 24, 2012 at 4:47 pm

    I’m with you IB obsessed. Super early start time is a no-go for me, unless my son establishes himself as a teenage earlybird who enjoys getting up in the early dawn.
    *maybe* if it’s amundsen and we live 2 blocks away….” Other than that, waiting for the bus on a cold dark winter morning? No way.

    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

  • 174. Angie  |  May 24, 2012 at 4:51 pm

    @157. SoxSideIrish4: “Ppl often 4get that old adage~bcareful what you ask for you might get it. Rahm asked for SB7 and he got it…never thinking the teachers would unite bc of it! He’s gotta be kicking himself and feeling like a fool…since he looks like one. Esp since CTU had more marchers than NATO!”

    Rahm is not stupid. I’m sure he knew that the union would fight like hell to protect status quo. And I hope that, while you prepare for the strike, he is readying his own PR campaign to tell the real story to the public.

  • 175. falconergrad  |  May 24, 2012 at 4:52 pm

    My daughter has a school years memory book. For kindergarten she wrote that one of her favorite subjects was testing. FWIW, her DIBELS scores seemed about right for her.

    IMO, a K or 1st grade student reading chapter books is not necessarily a good reader. They are not necessarily fluent readers nor are they comprehending everything they read. Please continue to use picture books with your K and 1st, if not 2nd grade and up children. There are varying levels of sophistication and they are not all baby books.

  • 176. chicagodancer22  |  May 24, 2012 at 5:49 pm

    Wow, is that really Lane Tech’s new timing? Does anyone know about Jones??

  • 177. bill  |  May 24, 2012 at 5:58 pm

    i took the 30% as a bargaining tactic. ask for 30%, hope for 15%, settle for 7-10%?

  • 178. Grand bazaar  |  May 24, 2012 at 6:41 pm

    @bill, it makes sence, since Rahm started at 7.5 hours, went down to 7 and will end up getting 6.5.

  • 179. cpsobsessed  |  May 24, 2012 at 7:12 pm

    @Falconergrad; that is funny/sad about the testing.
    I have always had a weird love of standardized testing too (maybe that’s why I’m sorta pro-testing now.)

    Even when I got my son an isat prep book I was oddly excited about taking him through the questions, etc.

    I do find them pretty easy to prep for because they ask things the same way over and over…

    Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

  • 180. cpsmommy  |  May 24, 2012 at 8:03 pm

    Lane’s appeal was accepted. New times for next year: 8AM to 3:30PM.

  • 181. SoxSideIrish4  |  May 24, 2012 at 8:03 pm

    #170~Chris most of standardize testing is optional and I know several families including mine for my younger son who will be opting out next year.

    #174~Angie, I said I thought Rahm looked like a fool~never said ‘stupid’. He’s an educated man and smart. But him trying to change the city w/upteen initiatives instead of focusing on CRIME/GANGS seems foolish. There are some kids who are afraid to cross gangs lines since he’s closed some schools. There have been so horrible crimes at the schools.
    As for he thought the ‘union would fight like hell’, no I don’t think that. I truly believe from what I’ve heard that he never thought the union could get the 75% approval. He underestimated the teachers.

  • 182. mom2  |  May 24, 2012 at 8:17 pm

    Glad Lane’s appeal was accepted. 8-3:30 sounds good.

  • 183. Waitingmom  |  May 24, 2012 at 9:30 pm

    @cpsmommy. Where did you get info on lanes appeal being accepted? As of yesterday it wasnt and teachers have no knowledge if it. I hope for both my husband and son that you are right though.

  • 184. LSMom  |  May 25, 2012 at 7:21 am

    Ditto @168, there’s a good chapter in Nurtureshock about how much better high school students perform if they have a later start time.

  • 185. Cindy (and a cps teacher)  |  May 25, 2012 at 8:29 am

    @Angie, what exactly is the “real story?” And why isn’t he telling it now?

  • 186. WY or bust  |  May 25, 2012 at 9:08 am

    Skinner West currently 9:15 will be 8:30 in the fall.

  • 187. Lasalle II parent  |  May 25, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    @184 Yes! Nuture Shock … I forgot about that book! Love it.

    Anyone know what Andrew Jackson got? I bet it is NOT a 7:45 .

    Funny I thought all of these times are to be coordinated. Well if most are winning their appeals WHERE IS THE COORDINATION.

    I cannot believe that all of these schools came up with relevant security reasons ( not to say that that is bad). I wish our school had used ANY possible scenario to get a different time.
    The administration and staff wanted and early start. So for now it is our schedule next year. ONe good thing- we will have some daylight ours after school.

  • 188. anonymouseteacher  |  May 25, 2012 at 5:18 pm

    There was no coordination. CPS says a lot of things, but many are not factual. Our school had no good reason, according to the reasons listed by the Board, to be given an appeal. Yet our principal appealed anyway because the time we wanted was better for our staff and students. We won the appeal.
    It is kind of like what is happening with Common Core. There is a lot of activity and a flurry of workshops,etc, but no real sense behind how the board is implementing or attempting to implement it. This is just how CPS works, 187. Don’t blink because in a year or two, everything is going to change anyway. It always does in this system. Hang on for the ride and try not to get run over in the process.

  • 189. Stunned  |  May 25, 2012 at 7:44 pm

    188 – so now we can all b@tch about how everyone appealed and CPS let them have have what they wanted. You’re right. CPS can do nothing right.

  • 190. Lasalle II parent  |  May 25, 2012 at 8:24 pm

    Now watch they will probably change our time because all the other schools have won there appeals and our time wont fit in staggered schedule. Or maybe they will just start the stagger with our school since we are the one with the 7:45 time….sobbing in my keyboard…sniff.

  • 191. anonymouseteacher  |  May 25, 2012 at 8:27 pm

    You are definitely right that CPS can do nothing right.

  • 192. anonymouseteacher  |  May 25, 2012 at 8:40 pm

    @190, I wouldn’t worry. They never had any real reasons or research behind the original start times to begin with so I doubt they’ll change the times. At least not until this fall when school hours may change yet again. They simply cannot coordinate something this big this fast. It will take a year of issues to arise in concrete ways for CPS to begin to figure it out. Every single school I have heard of appealing their times has been granted the appeal so there can’t have been strong reasons for the original hours to begin with.

  • 193. Angie  |  May 25, 2012 at 8:52 pm

    @185. Cindy (and a cps teacher) :”@Angie, what exactly is the “real story?” And why isn’t he telling it now?”

    Maybe he is waiting to do it later in the negotiation process.

    Personally, I would start with widely publicizing the CPS rebuttal to bogus CTU claims (see the link in #135). I would point out that most people keep their jobs and receive yearly raises based on the quality of their work, but the teachers refuse to be evaluated in this way, and demand the automatic salary increases regardless of their performance or working conditions. I would also calculate the hourly pay the teachers will be getting for the 7 hour work day based on the number of hours they work per year, compare it to the earnings of other white collar professionals, and the teachers in other cities, and ask if this can really be considered the slave wages.

    Rahm has trained professionals working for him, so I’m sure they can come up with much better talking points than these. I hope that he does not give in to the threats of the strike and continues to fight for the future of public education in Chicago.

  • 194. Waitingmom  |  May 25, 2012 at 11:42 pm

    Angie, would you want to go into a poorly performing school aNd have those kids determine your salary? With children and education it is not as black and white as in other professions. Students are not machines in a factory. Their upbringing, poverty rate, parental involvement etc etc all play into how well a child will perform. Even the best teacher can only do so much. The teachers that are working in those schools will flee and let me tell you people are not begging to go take those vacancies. This is not the forum to diss teachers and the jobs they do for our kids! They need support as their job is not easy at all.

  • 195. Angie  |  May 26, 2012 at 9:35 am

    @194. Waitingmom: CPS is proposing to give bigger raises to teachers who work under the difficult conditions and in less desirable schools, which would include those you are talking about. I think that teachers who work with disadvantaged children absolutely deserve to be paid more, but they have to show that they are, in fact, teaching them something. And that’s where the value-added scores come in.

    As for the kids’ opinion, it will only count for 10% of the teacher’s score. I think the kids should have some say in the matter, because if they don’t like the teacher, they are less likely to work hard.

  • 196. LR  |  May 26, 2012 at 11:51 am

    I agree with posters 100/101/108…setting start and end times is just CPS trying to make this seem like 7 hours is a done deal. I would believe it if the money were there.

    This whole thing just seems like a big joke. Can we just agree to a 6.5 hour day and 2% raise for next year already? Because I will be really mad if insistence on a 7 hour day keeps us off of school for three weeks next fall. And likewise, I would be annoyed if teachers reject what seems like a pretty good offer to me. Can’t we just make this happen now and not string us along through the summer? This has been going on for months. Enough already!

  • 197. soxsideirish4  |  May 26, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    #196~U r so rite, 7hrs is not a done deal bc there’s no money for it. It’s embarrassing that CPS tried to do this district wide instead of little by little in at-risk areas. All the studies to go a longer day is for at-risk students, so many schools don’t qualify. The studies show that CPS is using that the longer school year (which we will have 10 extra days) helps at-risk students, but NOT the longer school day. I don’t know if CPS didn’t read their own research that they are using or thought that the parents wouldn’t!
    Once again CPS looks foolish to our suburban neighborhood schools. Many school districts are talking abt CPS.
    My girlfriend in Naperville said that her school district was listed w/the wrong length of day…she said someone used the length that was for athletes not their normal school day. I don’t know who gathered the info, but it was incorrect.

  • 198. mom2  |  May 26, 2012 at 1:17 pm

    soxsideirish4 – so you agree that 6 1/2 hour day with the extra days in school and a 2% raise would be an acceptable agreement? I haven’t been getting that impression from your posts. Maybe the 6 1/2 hour day, but not the rest of what 196 said.

  • 199. SoxSideIrish4  |  May 26, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    #198~mom2~Honestly, the schools in our area do so well w/a 5.75 and I love it like that. However, 6.5 hr day is agreeable bc it’s the IL avg and the CPS schools that go 6.5 show that they have outscored 5.75 and all the schools 7hr and more that have the longest day. CPS is doing such a disservice to the kids that I think CPS should be divided up since they rushed to implement b4 studying the research. CPS should def give schools more autonomy bc their studies are for at-risk schools, and certain schools/neighborhoods don’t apply to that. No school district did a district wide longer day bc it takes a LOT of money to invest in the schools to do it properly. CPS could have done this, but didn’t.

    As for the raise? I don’t know what a fair raise is, I really don’t. I’m not a teacher and I’ve never read up on anything regarding it. It would be unfair for me to give my opinion since it would be such an uneducated one. Do I believe they should have a raise? Definitely, but I have no idea abt the amount or anything of that nature and I don’t want to suggest that I do.

  • 200. LR  |  May 26, 2012 at 3:15 pm

    I don’t really know if 2% is fair either. But what is fair and what is possible may be very different. If a 2% raise is all CPS can offer the teachers, then we are doing good if we get a 6.5 hour day out of it.

  • 201. anonymouseteacher  |  May 26, 2012 at 9:40 pm

    I support merit pay in some form.
    But until the BOE starts getting incredibly specific with how they will measure perfomance, exactly which tests will be used in each grade,how performance will be weighted to adjust things for sped kids and ESL kids and poverty and homeless kids, what percentage of growth over one year equals how much pay, etc, I will not agree or support it at all. I want details down to the extreme nitty gritty. Just like I would not purchase a home without an inspection that was incredibly detailed and every issue outlined, I will not agree to a contract that doesn’t spell out every last thing.
    I will not agree to some general merit pay idea that doesn’t say exactly how it will work.

  • 202. frustratedmom  |  May 26, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    @162, my child is at Skinner North, one of the three extended day school. Let me be the first to tell you that all i see are happy children and phenomenal teachers there. The teachers usually have smiles on their faces. Infact, so does the head of security who says, ” welcome back” every time i see him when i pick up my son. The principal is also amazing. He is extemely accessibale to parents and he is almost always in the hallway, playground or lunch room when the kids are there. My son told me that Mr. Netterstrom brought him school lunch when he spilled his home lunch. My other son’s school, which seems to be very pro-union by the union t- shirts worn by the teachers, staff and principal, does NOT have very happy teachers or students. The bottom line is that I, as well as most CPS parents, want their children to learn. We should not have to sacrifice our children’s education because the union and the mayor cannot agree on some issues. The union seems to be justing fighting for status quo and the mayor seems to want the children of this city to have have a competitive edge when applying to college. Let’s not forget that cps students have been performing extremely poorly for decades, so a radical change is needed.

  • 203. SoxSideIrish4  |  May 26, 2012 at 11:03 pm

    #202~you’re right CPS has been performing poorly for years and now the Sec of Ed is the former CEO of CPS…WOW now the country will fail in ed bc of Arne Duncan Also, so many parents at Skinner North have written abt how they don’t like the longer day and that their kids are tired and frustrated by the longer day. They feel CPS was not upfront abt the longest day ever.

    Both of my son’s schools are pro union and their teachers, principal and staff are wonderful. The kids are happy and perform above average CPS schools. I can’t say enough abt our neighborhood school teachers and all that they do to ensure an inspired, educated academic career!

  • 204. LR  |  May 27, 2012 at 12:03 am

    @202: From what I understand the union is not fighting for the status quo. I wrote them last fall and they wrote me back saying they are supportive of a 7 hour day. The crux of the matter is a quality day, which requires money, which, of course, is not there. Plus, I agree that in most CPS schools radical change is needed, but disagree that the mayor’s 7 hour day and longer year is the key to giving kids a competitive edge in college. We’ve had a 6.5 hour day for years at Bell and our track record is excellent with high school and college admissions, just like several other schools that have the 6.5 hour day. However, when our school moved to the 6.5 hour day, as far as I know, our teachers got no more raise than their colleagues at other schools who did not go to a 6.5 hour day. I guess that is why I think going to 6.5 hours should be kind of a no-brainer. CPS could argue that some teachers have been doing this for years and so it is just leveling the playing field. But, when CPS pushes for 7 hours and a longer year, suddenly there is the issue of teachers demanding the “huge pay increase” and the very real possibility of a strike. So, to me, what the mayor is pushing for seems foolish – 6.5 hours is less costly to CPS at time when they have no money and a far easier sell to teachers. Then again…I suspect that may be his desired outcome.

  • 205. Frank Thompson  |  May 27, 2012 at 9:08 am

    @angie. Where did you get your masters degree in education policy? Because for someone who talks a big talk you sure seem to think you know what you are talking about.

    Here is a nice dish of enlightenment for you: Merit Pay doesn’t work. It never has. And how can a teacher effectively deal with behavior issues if their students make up 10% of the evaluation? In fact, let’s talk about the real world. If in the real world you tell your boss to “f off” you get fired, but on CPS if you tell your teacher to “F off” you can back up your sentiment by getting the teacher fired. Yea that makes sense. In the real world, you get to sell to a consumer that likely needs/wants your product. In education, over 50% of the students an their families have no use for what you are selling other than being a free babysitting service. In the real world people with higher degrees and experience make buisness policy. In education, people that know about buisness are making policy. I bet educators would do better running buisnesses than buisness people run education.

    Angie, my point here is that you have no idea what you are talking about. You have no evidence, no degree and no research to back up your opinion. Teachers on the other hand, do. We are the experts. We know the facts. We do the job and we walk the walk. If you don’t like public education, then home school your kids or send them to private school.

  • 206. Pulaski?  |  May 27, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    Why did Pulaski’s principal bail? He was there for a mere two years. He couldn’t even fulfill a 4 year contract? That’s just crazy!

  • 207. Questioner  |  May 27, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    Pulaski’s website says their principal accepted a job as principal at another school. I wonder which school.

  • 208. bookworm  |  May 27, 2012 at 5:37 pm

    Angie are you secretly Rahm himself…… Your dislike of the unions and even teachers seems so deep. Why not go to a charter or private if you distrust organized teachers so much?

    I guess I feel the opposite way. I can’t believe how disruptive to the excellent school environment our staff and faculty work so hard to maintain that these poorly planned city initiatives have been.

    The mayor isn’t pro learner to me in the least. I can’t see pouring the money into pr instead of into policy that you don’t need to spin.

  • 209. frustratedmom  |  May 28, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    @203 my son is in kinderegarten and i have not heard one complaint from any parents about the day being too long. In fact, i know many kindergarteners, including my son, who participate in after school programming until 4:45 or 6 pm. Perhaps the ones who complain about have children who bus in. The principal gave the teachers and parents a great dealof input regarding the extended day activities. For instance, the kindergarten classes get 2 recesses, increased spanish from one to three days a week and gym from one to two times a week. I’ve spent many hours in the class room helping out and i am just astounded by how engaged and challenged the children are in class. I have been in otherkindergarten classes at one of the top magnet schools in lincoln park and the kids were bored there. I applaud the teachers and principal at Skinner North for how well they do their jobs. I am very familiar with many of the top neighborhood, magnet, regional gifted schools in Lakeview, LP, Wicker Park and Gold Coast and in my opinion Skinner North provides the happiest, calmest and most challenging learning environment by far. Their curruclum is bettere than Latin or Lab in the early years.

  • 210. frustratedmom  |  May 28, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    @204, ido agree woth you about Rahm’s ultimate goal…

  • 211. Marketing Mom  |  May 28, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    @parent and cps employee
    Are we supposed to feel sorry for you because you have to work until 4:20 now? Welcome to the real world where many working parents work till 5 or 6 and have to make child care arrangements every day.

  • 212. falconergrad  |  May 28, 2012 at 2:46 pm

    what parent and cps employee is saying is that additional, optional duties (pair or unpaid) may not be as feasible or attractive to teachers.
    how come you did not become a teacher so you would not have to live in the “real world”?

    how is everyone who works till 5 or 6 going to feel about sharing the commute home with teachers? maybe the morning rush hour, too.

  • 213. SoxSideIrish4  |  May 28, 2012 at 3:29 pm

    #209~frustratedmom~here go to this website created by the 13 pioneer schools who don’t like the longer day and read what many Skinner North’s parents’ say

    …I’d be frustrated too if my gr k was gone all day.

  • 214. liza  |  May 28, 2012 at 4:35 pm

    #211 Marketing Mom I live in the “real world”, the world that gives me an option of choosing my profession. I worked in profession where I did not get home until 6 or 7 in the evening. I chose to leave that profession and became a teacher when my husband and I chose to have children. Both of us felt that we needed to make accomodations in our professional lifes in order to be the type of parents we wanted to be. I went back to school and earned a 2nd masters degree in education so that I would be able to spend more time with my children. Took a pretty substantial pay cut to do that. That to me is the “real world” where you put the needs of your children first. You don’t like the fact that you have to work that late every day, pay for child care, etc., maybe you should have taken all that into consideration before you had children.

  • 215. Lasalle II parent  |  May 28, 2012 at 5:25 pm

    Network nutsiness – Substance News

    This article says it all about the nonsense that our school principals have to put up with from central office. Light bulb moments like a 7:45 start time come from these Corporate goofs!

  • 216. Harry&Jack's mom  |  May 28, 2012 at 6:18 pm


    FYI–As a K parent at Skinner North (whose kid is bused, so I’d say I have a valuable perspective on this longer-day debate), I can tell you with certainty that the handful of folks on that web site you cited do NOT represent the majority of our school. I know many of them and like them and respect their opinions, BUT this handful of people do NOT represent me and many of the parents I know at Skinner North on this particular issue. I am still irritated by the way their survey was written, distributed to us and even given to the media without our knowledge or input, but that is water under the bridge. I am reasonably sure this kind of thing will not happen again without informed consent.

    Many of us at SN have been fairly happy with the longer day and what it has brought our kids, from extra specials to recess to extra time to stretch out learning during the day (instead of the pell-mell kind of rushing that can short-change subjects and exhaust children and their ability to learn and enjoy school). Oh, and the $150,000 Pioneer money has been used wisely by the teachers to bring in the resources they needed to do an even more stellar job than they already do–can’t forget that! I cannot say enough good things about Skinner North, folks!

  • 217. JulieF  |  May 28, 2012 at 7:53 pm

    @Harry&Jack’s mom — I’m happy for you that you have a great situation for your kids. Unfortunately, 95% of us are in neighborhood schools, and our longer day will look nothg like yours. *No* extra specials are on the table, zero. No extra funds are on the table so our teachers “can bring in the resources they need.” None.

    But we’ll surely get more testing and test prep, and exhausted and resentful teachers. Not a good tradeoff for my kids.

    Skinner North has 29% low income students. Doesn’t that fundamentally change the options available there in comparison with the CPS average of 89%?

  • 218. Crawley  |  May 28, 2012 at 8:32 pm

    Skinner North parent here. I’m also one of the parents who provided and evaluated the previously mentioned survey.

    Harry & Jack’s mom makes some very good and true points regarding Skinner North. The teachers are beyond amazing and energetic. The students are receptive, advanced, and engaged.

    Of course on the other hand, these are the exact qualities I would’ve used to describe our school the past two years when we were there for 5.75 hours as well.

    Our survey uncovered that 99% of parents at Skinner North wanted a day longer than 5.75 hours and just under half wanted the 7.5 hour day. When weighted averages were applied the results demonstrated that the consensus time for our school was 7 hours and 4 minutes (with a few odd seconds in there to be exact).

    I, personally, prefer 6.5 hours as it seems to be a true compromise while at the same time providing more time to families who want it. This also would have the least impact economically and at least at first glance would be the easiest to implement. Recess and lunch continues to be a challenge for our 7.5 hour day that usually involves the security guard and an administrator monitoring recess. Since there is only one security guard and two administrators this means the security guard is taken away from his other duties for a block during the day.

    Sometimes gaps are filled by paid college students and parents as well.

    My argument has always been that with such an involved community, selective enrollment students, a burst of funding, and a young and energetic staff, Skinner North as a whole (regardless of the acute experience of my child’s) will succeed whether we are in school for 4 hours or 9 hours. So what happens at the schools with no parent volunteers, broken down facilities, underfunding, overworked and underappreciated teachers, no paid college students, etc.?

    Why can’t we fix what is broken before adding more of the broken?

  • 219. SoxSideIrish4  |  May 28, 2012 at 8:34 pm

    Actually CPS has Skinner North as 34.3% low income students (which I was surprised by) since my neighborhood school is 18.7% low income but then realized they take from all across the city so it would be higher. Since skinner north is sees, it gets certain funds, that neighborhood schools don’t get. CPS already said they don’t know how long those funds for the pioneer schools w/go on. As for me, I don’t care how much a school is getting if my kids is coming home at reasonable time to do park activities, sports, music lessons, FAMILY time. I’m sure SN is a great school, I just happen to know there are many SN families who feel their family would be better served w/a 6.5hr day.

  • 220. Harry&Jack's mom  |  May 28, 2012 at 8:34 pm

    Thanks, JulieF. But I was specifically responding to #213, who said:

    “#209~frustratedmom~here go to this website created by the 13 pioneer schools who don’t like the longer day and read what many Skinner North’s parents’ say

    …I’d be frustrated too if my gr k was gone all day.”

    I merely wanted to rebut the assertion that ALL of the 13 Pioneer schools feel the SAME way about the longer day and were members of that group that he/she referenced. Actually, strike that. I’d agree with that, IF the assertion was that all of the Pioneer schools felt the same way about the longer school day, which was that we all felt DIVIDED. We all seem to have encountered a fair amount of pros and cons this year as guinea pigs–albeit well-fed–guinea pigs for CPS.

    To be clear, the 13 Pioneer schools did NOT band together and create that site or that group. A handful of parents from many of those schools did so. That’s their right. (shrug)

    No, I think holding up the Pioneer schools as an end-all, be-all example for ALL CPS schools would be foolish, indeed. I wish more neighborhood schools would have become Pioneer schools, so the data and anecdotal info would be more representative of the whole CPS, but we have what we have to work with.

    Forget that the Pioneer schools are for the most part, magnet, classical or RGC–when you boil it down, kids are kids and families have a finite amount of time each day. Plus, each school’s community has its own culture and realities. What works in one school will not work in all. My other kid is in a school with 52% poverty, which I know is a cakewalk compared to a lot of CPS, but I can see that it’s different than SN in some fundamental ways. Most of the things SN did would work there, but not all. For example, I have very real concern that there will be afterschool care issues in kid 1’s school vs. SN. On the other hand, longer days in school could ease some of the afterschool care issues many lower-income families face. If homework is adjusted, too, that could take off some of the afterschool burden for families and kids. (One of the things SN learned this year was that monthly monster projects are too much with the longer day and daily homework may need to be scaled back a bit.) With the extra classtime, the pace is not as frantic and they can drill down a bit more into a topic–that’s gotta be good for all kids, no matter their school’s poverty level.

    I don’t have all the answers, but I can say that being a part of this longer day process has never been dull! I hope people will give it a chance and that everyone, including parents, administrators and teachers will take part in making adaptations that work for their specific population. For this to work and work well, it’s going to have to be a collaborative effort. I wish there was more money for teachers (I come from a long line of teachers and union folk), but we’ll see what they will be able to negotiate this summer.

  • 221. SoxSideIrish4  |  May 28, 2012 at 8:36 pm

    #218~when you have involved families that are fully engaged in their children’s education, they will succeed w/in anytime frame.

  • 222. SoxSideIrish4  |  May 28, 2012 at 8:46 pm

    Just to clarify myself in #219~I meant I don’t care as long as my school is being properly funded, but anything longer than 6.5h for school is just babysitting and that is NOT what CPS is for, CPS is to educate…every1 should be on their own for childcare.

  • 223. JulieF  |  May 28, 2012 at 9:04 pm

    @SoxSideIrish4 – I have no idea why, but the stats on the CPS website are often outdated. The IL state report card site is more current, and shows a steep decrease in low-income enrollment at Skinner North over the last two years, interestingly: Not sure if that’s a trend at SE elementaries across the board, but if so, it’s noteworthy.

    @Harry&Jack’s mom – I’ve been asking and asking about the homework policy with the longer day, with no answers. I think that means they do not intend to reduce the current homework load, which I am very frustrated by.

  • 224. SoxSideIrish4  |  May 28, 2012 at 9:17 pm

    #224~JulieF~that is so interesting…I just checked 3 se school and they all had a decrease in low income enrollment….hhmmmmm.

    I dont know how they can even talk abt a longer day w/a deficit of $700M and the state cutting funding for education another 4%? Rahm is so embarrassing…

  • 225. JulieF  |  May 28, 2012 at 9:37 pm

    @SoxSideIrish4 – I agree!

  • 226. Parent and CPS Employee  |  May 28, 2012 at 10:08 pm

    @211 — Marketing Mom: Wow, that kind of came out of left field. I’m not sure what you read in my message that gave you the impression I was asking for sympathy. Someone upthread had asked how the longer hours would impact after school programs at high schools (as opposed to elementary schools) and I responded with my own situation.

    Respectfully: responding with such vitriol and deliberate provocation is neither helpful nor productive.

  • 227. Educate  |  May 28, 2012 at 10:42 pm

    @222, agreed. School ´s job is to educate. Not to provide a childcare. Afterschool care is nice but should be mostly paid for, maybe a sliding scale would work.

  • 228. Mom/teacher  |  May 29, 2012 at 12:18 am

    As a cps teacher and parent, just FYI…many of us work well past dismissal and are in same position of scrambling our families together at 5 and 6 o’clock too. I work a full time job. It’s that kind of attitude that rubs me the wrong way. Now as a parent, I appreciate that my kid’s school went to open campus and has recess daily. I think 6.5 is cost effective and a happy medium.

  • 229. Sped Mom  |  May 29, 2012 at 8:42 am

    @ 223. JulieF – “I have no idea why, but the stats on the CPS website are often outdated. The IL state report card site is more current, and shows a steep decrease in low-income enrollment at Skinner North over the last two years, interestingly: Not sure if that’s a trend at SE elementaries across the board, but if so, it’s noteworthy.”

    I wonder about the sped population, similarly. Down? Either way – up or down – that would be noteworthy too.

  • 230. Harry&JackMom  |  May 29, 2012 at 9:36 am

    SoxSideIrish4 and JulieF–

    I think it’s hard to say much about Skinner North’s stats right now, since it’s such a new school, with only 240 kids this year. Next year, we’ll add a total of 64 more kids (60 new K kids and 4 more fourth graders, as is the formula after 4th grade, 32 per class vs. 30 in lower grades). These 64 new kids for the 2012-2013 can significantly change the demographics of the school in all kinds of ways that could look startling on paper but not in practice.

    With such small numbers and no data history, a minor quirk or fluctuation can look like a sea change. We should be cautious how we interpret the data in such a small, new population. For example, on paper, SN’s ISAT numbers are super-impressive–100% exceeds expectations. On the other hand, that represents only 30 kids who took the test once! I have every reason to believe it will continue to be a great school, but I believe that more because of what I experience at the school versus numbers on paper.That counts too.

    This is part of the thrill and fear of being a part of a new school. 🙂

  • 231. Frustrated late start  |  May 29, 2012 at 12:14 pm

    I’m not pleased with 8:45, and talking with a lot of other parents, most preferred 30 minutes earlier. I never realized how many kids’ activities start at 4pm because it didn’t matter before, most everyone was done by 3:30. Now I suppose I hope some adjust start times because other kids are facing the same problem. Or you have to either a) take the hit for being late, b) remove your child from school early once a week, or c) drop them from something they desperately need (or even just truly love)!

  • 232. fouryeyes  |  May 29, 2012 at 4:12 pm

    They say that there will be 23 days of standardized testing at our SEHS next year. That is nearly ONE month of instruction. That is a problem. If there is no school on those days – the instruction week is interrupted. If there is school on those days – the kids are like zombies and often not able to focus and concentrate.

    Next week, on June 5th – We will have to implement the PLAN/EXPLORE test – in rooms that are not well ventilated and can hit upwards of 90 degree temps. We will lose a day of instruction and review for the actual course content.

  • 233. Chris  |  May 29, 2012 at 6:27 pm

    “Where did you get your masters degree in education policy?

    You have no evidence, no degree and no research to back up your opinion. Teachers on the other hand, do.”

    Teachers have degrees in education *POLICY*?? If not, you’re in the same boat as Angie.

    Also, where’s *your* evidence and research?

  • 234. HS Mom  |  May 29, 2012 at 7:27 pm

    @232 – exactly what tests and how long do they take. All grades?

    Our SEHS had 2 plan tests this year. The second was done during math class and during reading class for those respective subjects. It was good practice – especially the reading. Done very informally.

  • 235. Damn Neighborhood Schools  |  May 29, 2012 at 10:42 pm

    Kelly students will start at about 7:10 a.m. Unless they’re on the middle shift and start at 8ish. Or on the late shift starting a little after 9:30. Ugh.

  • 236. Gunnery Sgt Hartman  |  May 31, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    7:10!!! Are these kids in the army? Horrible start time.

  • 237. kiki h.  |  May 31, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    I had a 7:10 start time in high school. It was terrible. I was a smart kid, but I often slept right through the 5:45 alarm. I missed/failed my first hour classes many times, and barely managed to graduate.

    I really wish the administration would take some actual research into account when they do their planning. I thought it was common knowledge by now that high school kids need later start times.

  • 238. Mom  |  May 31, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    WHERE do I find my school (Taft H.S.) start time??

  • 239. HS Mom  |  May 31, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    3 start times? These seem to be outside of allotted CPS times. 9:30 is veritable “country club” hours.

  • 240. kdg going to Disney  |  May 31, 2012 at 4:19 pm

    Disney on Marine Dr. start time 2012-2013 is 8am – 3pm

  • 241. chicagodancer22  |  May 31, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    Anybody on Jones?

  • 242. Mom of 2 CPS kids  |  May 31, 2012 at 6:53 pm

    Edgebrook longer day hours were 7:45-2:45 – now will be 8:30-3:30…still hearing 8:45-3:45 for Wildwood

  • 243. Tom  |  June 1, 2012 at 7:42 am

    That’s a huge loss for Edgebrook. Most kids there want to do afterschool activities. 3:30? Wow.

  • 244. Lasalle II parent  |  June 1, 2012 at 7:53 am

    I think Kelly is a high school. That is why they have different hours. I think it works better for High School age kids.

  • 245. HS Mom  |  June 1, 2012 at 9:06 am

    @241- Jones will start at 8 like it does now. I assume that means until 3:30. There will be an early release or start day once a week with the new block scheduling. Not sure how that works.

  • 246. Peter  |  June 6, 2012 at 9:35 am

    I believe start times at:

    Waters is 8:45-3:45
    Peirce is 8-3

  • 247. Rose Glenn  |  June 7, 2012 at 6:05 pm

    Parker at 6900 S Stewart is still 7:45 as it is now. They just get out later. No longer 1:45, now 3:00pm. But we had the 7:45 – 3:00 schedule for a portion o the school year and it was fine for us.

  • 248. fifitrixiebell  |  June 9, 2012 at 8:36 am

    @237 Wow 7.10 am that’s crazy …..I think 7.45 is too early

  • 249. Jessica  |  July 9, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    I just wanted to update that Skinner North appealed and won an 8:15 a.m. start time, 3:15 p.m end time. That’s 15 minutes later start than this year, ending 15 minutes earlier.

    As a total side note, my son rides the bus, and the length of time it takes him to arrive at school is about the same amount of time it takes me to drive him there. And he enjoys the company of his bus friends much more. 🙂

    8:15 is a very early start time and I wish we had been granted an 8:45 a.m. start time like my son’s Pre-K school, Ravenswood. Ironically. I think SN gets the early start time *because* so many kids bus– this allows the bus company to run a second shift. Too bad it means my little guy has to be on the bus at 7:30 a.m.

  • 250. IBobsessed  |  July 9, 2012 at 1:57 pm

    @243 and others, have to admit I’m baffled as to why an 8:30 to 3:30 school time is a WOW and a huge loss. Plenty of private/parochial schools start at 8:30 and release at 3:30. Those kids manage to get homework done and do afterschool activities. What’s the big deal?

  • 251. Motherof3  |  August 21, 2012 at 11:07 am

    Our neighborhood school (which my one daughter attends) will go 8:45-3:45, we originally thought this was a bad thing but now it appears as if one of our other children will hopefully (fingers crossed) be able to pick her up and walk her home. Our other one at Taft AC starts 7:45-3:00 and then we have a boy a WYHS and we have no idea about the schedule. Three kids starting and getting out at three different times, crazy.

  • 252. GalileoMommy  |  September 15, 2012 at 2:21 am

    Galileo kept their drop off time of 7:30 for breakfast, class start at 7:55. School day use to end at 1:30; now it ends at 2:45. Seems like they tacked on the extra time to the end of the school day.

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