March 21, 2011 at 11:01 pm
2nd round SE high school letters were supposedly mailed out on Monday 3/21. Post the news here….
Entry filed under: High school. Tags: CPS high school letter, CPS Selective enrollment high school letters, SE second round, SEHS letters.
POST ELEM/AC LETTER INFO HERE PART 2: FIRST LETTER SIGHTING STEM Magnet School News
CPSmomof3 | March 22, 2011 at 11:44 am
Waiting to see if anyone gets a second round spot! Good luck to all!
We declined our SE spot in favor of our neighborhood school magnet program, largely because of proximity but also because the SE spot we got was our 3rd choice. Wondering if that means because we declined, are we automatically entered for second round? Her score was reasonably close to the cut off for our tier (13 points) for both her first and second choices. Or was there somewhere you had to indicate that? Realize that second (and subsequent) spots being open at most SE high schools is likely not happening but admit to hanging on to a slimmer of hope….
confused | March 22, 2011 at 12:43 pm
is this for high school? you decline SE for neighborhood magnet? which choice did you decline?
Mayfair Dad | March 22, 2011 at 12:51 pm
Mayfair Son declined Westinghouse (SE third choice) hoping to get a spot at Lane Tech (SE first choice) on the second round after missing by a few points — Tier 4. Our understanding is if you decline your round one spot by the deadline, your student re-enters the pool of applicants for round two. He was already accepted at Lincoln Park IB (we happily accepted) and Von Steuben Scholars (we regretfully declined). He also forfeited his guaranteed spot at Ogden International. Since Lane Tech has such a large freshman class, it is not unreasonable to hope for a round two spot. If this materializes, we will have a serious discussion with Mayfair Son about his academic ambitions. I favor the LPIB program, Mayfair Mom is a proud Lane Tech alumna. We live very close to Lane Tech.
Mail usually arrives about this time but my wife is not answering the phone. Grrrr…
60646Mom | March 22, 2011 at 12:57 pm
3. Mayfair Dad – That is probably why she is ot answering the phone. Too much stress. Good luck.
CPSmomof3 | March 22, 2011 at 1:02 pm
@2 Confused, yes, this is about high school SE. We declined Lane Tech which we had ranked third behind WY and Jones – Tier 4. Mayfair Dad, thanks for clarifying re: round two.
Thankfully she was admitted into LPHS vocal performing arts and double honors/AP magnet programs so we chose that over Lane. Lane is an awesome school (good luck Mayfair Dad!) but we live much closer to LP and learned that the music program there is perhaps a bit better than Lane’s.
cps Mom | March 22, 2011 at 1:09 pm
You have a chance at Jones – a few spaces available. Heard through the grapevine WY is not doing a second round?? We’ll see what people come up with. Good luck everybody. I hope you get it.
Mayfair Dad | March 22, 2011 at 1:18 pm
Mail arrived, nothing CPS-related. Maybe better this way, no more teeth gnashing and now we can look forward to LPIB. Mayfair Mom is a bit crestfallen, but my son seems genuinely excited about LPIB. Best option we were offered for sure.
Principal Discretion | March 22, 2011 at 1:18 pm
Does anyone have a principal discretion success story to share? we are hoping for PD. otherwise, we are heading to LP.
cps Mom | March 22, 2011 at 1:23 pm
@8 – I have 2 – both involved a story, one a sibling and the usual cast of accomplishments (karate, science fair, soccer, etc). In both cases the scores were high enough that they would have made 2nd round.
Principal Discretion | March 22, 2011 at 1:30 pm
but made it through PD?
cps Mom | March 22, 2011 at 1:39 pm
yes – they got in. Jones will be looking for 10 this year. I believe they got close to 200 applications.
CPSmomof3 | March 22, 2011 at 1:45 pm
cps mom, thanks for the info. We decided against PD for a number of reasons even though she easily met 2 of the criteria. Even so, I am curious to see how the rest of this process unfolds for others.
I think she would, at this point, turn Jones down in favor of LP as she has really gotten excited about going there…but WY would be another matter.
Principal Discretion | March 22, 2011 at 1:46 pm
200 applications for PD? ugh! my worry is that they dont read all the letters. i just hope someone reads his letter, that’s all. he also has a story!🙂
cps Mom | March 22, 2011 at 1:50 pm
They go through every one.
Principal Discretion | March 22, 2011 at 2:03 pm
i called downtown a few days ago and they said the same. i was skeptical to go through PD because i heard somewhere that only people with “connections” get in but we are trying anyway. we’ll see what happens.
bacmom2 | March 22, 2011 at 2:26 pm
Mayfair Dad, just curious as to why you declined Ogden International? Also, if anyone has any feedback regarding Ogden, I would greatly appreciate it. My son has to decide between Ogden and Von Steuben. Thanks much!
Mayfair Dad | March 22, 2011 at 3:22 pm
@16: I think Ken Staral and his staff do a great job at Ogden International, but the high school feels very, very small to me. I attended a very large high school (Libertyville HS) and my wife attended Lane Tech, so we both liked the idea of lots of clubs, team sports, school spirit, etc.
I have heard great things about Von Steuben. Several VS teachers live in our neighborhood. It is a very strong “off-the-radar” option. A larger school than Ogden — maybe logistics is a consideration? VS has a track record whereas Ogden is just getting off the ground.
Tour both schools and see which one feels right to you and your son. Maybe stand outside at dismissal and see what the student body is like.
anxietymom | March 22, 2011 at 3:31 pm
I hear Lane will not have a second round as they gave out more offers than usual and has less people decline. They also have the AC opening which I would have to think will affect numbers as well. The admissions person at Lane seemed to indicate PD was the way to go.
As for Lane’s vocal program, it is superior to Lincoln Park..theater program, not so much. This past weekend at the solo festival, over 75 kids earned superior medals for their vocal performances.
I am hoping for PD at Lane…the waiting is horrible. Good luck to everyone on 2nd round and PD!
bacmom2 | March 22, 2011 at 3:36 pm
Mayfair Dad, thank you for the feedback. My son is set on VS, he has always been active in school clubs, sports and ec activities and Ogden does seem to offer minimal choices as far as that area is concerned.
Principal Discretion | March 22, 2011 at 3:42 pm
where do you guys hear about 2nd round rumors? CPS downtown?
Curious | March 22, 2011 at 3:44 pm
@9-cps mom…Regarding your PD stories.Do u think that if a kid has a sibling at say Lane Tech,that they have a better chance of getting in?
Curious | March 22, 2011 at 3:56 pm
Does anyone know,what a principal looks for in the PD application/essay? Academics?Current Siblings?Sports?
Principal Discretion | March 22, 2011 at 4:00 pm
I hope they dont look at sibilings. that wouldnt be fair.
chiMom | March 22, 2011 at 4:08 pm
23 – totally agree. The sibling stuff is not fair.
cps Mom | March 22, 2011 at 4:17 pm
I am not in on the process but can guess based upon the 2 that I know that got in. I’m guessing that they look at scores in conjunction with the outside factors. Lets face it, there aren’t too many opportunities where the average kid can demonstrate leadership abilities strong enough to warrant entry to SE based solely upon that ability. My guess with the sibling situation I am aware of, is that it helped from the standpoint that the school knew the family and the track record of the existing sibling (could help or hurt?).
Principal Discretion | March 22, 2011 at 4:21 pm
that’s true. depending on the sibling, that could hepl or hurt. we know a few of those stories.
mom2 | March 22, 2011 at 4:24 pm
From a parent perspective, I totally understand how having a sibling at a school shouldn’t play a role in PD and would seem unfair. However, from a school’s perspective, having one family devoted to one school can greatly benefit that school vs. having divided loyalties, time, etc. I would think the same would hold true if a family member was an alumni, it might be a plus for a school to offer a spot for the child. (I know Mayfair Mom and Dad and Son would be a great asset to Lane Tech!) I’m sure that is why they now try to keep siblings at the same elementary school (Magnet, Magnet cluster).
Stressed by CPS | March 22, 2011 at 4:48 pm
#18 Anxiety mom: I agree there may not be a second round for Lane. Maybe if there is a large number of kids who decline. They did accept 1255 freshman this year as oppsed to 1100 last year. A lot of kids do decline their spot at Lane because they choose LPHS for whatever reasons or because they feel disappointed in not getting their 1st choice and think Lane is not good enough for them. (SO NOT TRUE!) I am saying this based on conversations I have had with parents AND students who declined Lane.
I do know of one PD picked based on sports accomplishments. The child scored well, was accepted to 2nd choice but tried for their 1st and got in.
Siblings should be considered if their score is measurable, not just because.
Using sports as a way to get into Lane may not always work. They already have a history of really great athletes. Maybe it would work for NCP or Payton. PD story I shared above was about Payton.
Every kid has a story. Mine had a plan of action just in case but luckily he was accepted into his first choice. I don’t know anyone who got in on the second round to any school accept for Lane. Last year, stats show NCP didn’t even have a 2nd round. (I could be wrong, though-maybe it was Payton.) I assume not many kids decline either of the 2. Good luck to all!
cpsobsessed | March 22, 2011 at 4:49 pm
I’m starting to think that my anti-social kid who hates sports might have some good options for high school as everyone flocks to places like Lane etc. He would be fine with Ogden HS etc. Oh, except for the work. 🙂
I think the PD process is the one chance where nothing has to be fair (as long as the principal is acting in the school’s best interest.) If letting the mayor’s kid in will help bring the school clout, go for it. If having a famous athlete’s son will help create school spirit, why not? If letting in a kid who’s parents put in a lot of time in the PTA, that can only help the school….
I guess it’s not fair, but as long as the kids can cut it and there are other reasons to bring them on board, it makes sense to me.
If their mom writes a geeky school blog……
Curious | March 22, 2011 at 4:52 pm
@27-mom2…Very well said….I recall there was a story back in Dec.2009 or Jan.2010.About a mom’s kids(twins) that didnt get into the same SEES & had to go to different schools, and this created a big headache for her as she now had to dropoff her kids in 2 different locations instead of one.Her story was in the Chicago Sun-Times. But I think the sibling rule should be considered,when kids apply for the PD. Even though it does not affect my kids status with the PD…
Lincoln IG | March 22, 2011 at 5:09 pm
Many of us in Chicago drop our kids off at different schools. its the norm. I have my 1st grader at neighborhood school and 8th grader at another. thankfully, 8th grader has been taking the brown line since 6th grade (hes a boy)🙂
bacmom2 | March 22, 2011 at 5:32 pm
@ Lincoln IG, I am one of those moms too! My kindergartener goes to a magnet school (pretty distant from the house and I refuse to let her take the school bus) and my 8th grader attends the neighborhood school and has to take the CTA home. I drop them both off in the morning, but after school is where the difference lies due to dismissal times, unless he has practice of some sort.
Worried | March 22, 2011 at 5:39 pm
We are in a similar situation as Mayfair dad, only we don’t have the Lincoln Park option, but instead are looking at private school. Unfortunately he really prefers Lane. We did not apply for principal discretion after very careful consideration; but i’m now wondering if we should have? Our son missed the cut-off for Lane by only 5 points in Tier 4. With no second round, it seems we’re out of luck
@18- are you certain Lane will not have a second round? How do you know this? I’m alteady about to completely lose it over this whole process.
I realize this process has never been predictable, but to have the “rules” or expectations change so dramatically from year to year concerning who gets in and who doesnt is enough to send a rational person over the edge.
cps Mom | March 22, 2011 at 7:52 pm
At the LSC meetings schools will discuss admissions and where they stand. So, they are public about it. I’m guessing that if you can’t wait for mail (tomorrow??) you could call Lane and ask if they have a round 2. If Lane had over 1200 offers my guess would be that there could be a fair number turning it down (like #5) for LP or private. The wild card here is the AC. Don’t give up hope yet. I also think some may turn it down for a chance at Whitney, Payton or Northside -(which may not have round 2) but will create openings at Lane.
CPSmama | March 22, 2011 at 8:16 pm
@Worried, I agree w/ #34- call Lane and ask if they are having a round 2. Last yr many Tier 4 students declined Lane and it opened many
For some reason Lane unfairly has a certain “stigma” among Tier 4 families,maybe Tier 3 too. For some of those parents, it’s not “good enough”for their kid. I have found that Lane is a great school, with some excellent teachers (and a few not so great ones) with nice well-rounded kids who are not overly competitive. I know the size can be a turn off, but they still have 30 or fewer students in their classes.
anxietymom | March 22, 2011 at 10:22 pm
I was told by a friend who teaches at Lane. They got more acceptances than usual. BUT this is CPS, so who knows what the real story is. I do know people waiting for a second round letter from Lane so I hope it is inaccurate info!
cpsobsessed | March 23, 2011 at 8:13 am
Question on HS applications regarding grades:
Is that the average for each subject for the 4 quarters? i.e. what if in Reading a kid has 3 A’s and 1 B? How does that count?
showmedastats | March 23, 2011 at 8:24 am
@37 – yes, the grade used for the point system is the final year’s grade average. So 3As and a B would average to 3.75 to an A.
I am not sure whether they round up or down for 2As+2Bs (3.5).
cps Mom | March 23, 2011 at 8:27 am
For selective enrollment – A=75 pts B=50pts C=25pts so in this example you get 275 pts out of 300 possible
just a mom | March 23, 2011 at 8:55 am
if you have a 7th grader and you want her to make the SE cut i highly suggest he/she does nothing but get straight A’s. My kid is at a gifted program and he got 3 B’s as final grade in 7th grade and it definitely affected him. that’s was 75 points off!!!! even with perfect ISATs and entrance exam he was already at 825.
i didnt push him for straight A’s. i wish i was a little tougher but i know he’ll be ok. he’s currently signed up for LPHS IB.
NorthCenter Mom | March 23, 2011 at 9:00 am
@39. Please address the part of @37’s question regarding which grades are counted. Is each quarter’s grade tallied or is it just the end of year grade?
just a mom | March 23, 2011 at 9:08 am
end of year grade counts. that’s it.
cps Mom | March 23, 2011 at 9:08 am
41 – Oh, OK the final 7th grade grades for 4 core subjects – science, math, social studies, reading.
@40 is correct. The grades aspect has really lost it’s meaning since you do need straight A’s with the way things are calculated now. Reading some former posts, a kid with 3 A’s and a B and one section of one of the tests with a low score could not get into Lane (tier 4)
just a mom | March 23, 2011 at 9:25 am
I’ve been reading these posts and i’ve noticed a few families have decided against PD. why is that? just curious. we decided to go through the process and we know it is a very slim chance that my kid we’ll get a spot but we thought that was our last and only chance.
CPSmomof3 | March 23, 2011 at 9:34 am
Regarding grades….I freaked out when my 7th grader brought home a B in math that first quarter. The teacher calmed me down and explained that as long as she got 2 A’s and 2 B’s, she would get the A as the final grade. When you split like that, they give you the higher of the 2. (so 2B’s and 2 C’s would result in a B for a final grade.) I can attest from personal experience at our school, at least, this is the way it worked. That took pressure off, I thought you had to get all A’s to get all A’s (unreasonable for my kid). As it worked, she got A’s half the time and ended up with all A’s.
I don’t know what happens when you get 2 A’s, a B and a C though….
cps Mom | March 23, 2011 at 9:48 am
Your school gets it and is very accommodating. Not all schools are. With the Impact system, grades are calculated very specifically based upon points. 2 A’s and 2 B’s may not necessarily mean a final A BUT a teacher can give point credit for class participation or weigh certain sections of the grade differently to boost grades. This does require some discretionary action by the teacher or school. This can also work against a kid. I won’t even go into the various grade scales at different schools – something that is supposed to be addressed next year.
just a mom | March 23, 2011 at 9:51 am
@45 isn’t this whole thing just so crazy?🙂
James | March 23, 2011 at 10:12 am
@ Lincoln IG (#31) — Having kids at different schools in Chicago is hardly “the norm.” Some folks have to do it, and it really is a pain, especially as the kids get older and have more school-related activities. I don’t know any family who does not do whatever it takes to try to avoid that. The problem is even worse when one kid is at a private school and the other at CPS, since the schedules almost never mesh.
Please note that this is not an argument for siblings to get preference in the SE HS principal discretion process. But I don’t have a problem with the fact that a kid has a sibling at the school being noted in the application and, in close cases, being the tiebreaker.
grades to make it to SE | March 23, 2011 at 10:13 am
you are definitely right. we are in one of those school were they are NOT accommodating when it comes to grades, the kid gets what he earns. i woudlnt take the risk of 2As and 2Bs might end end being an A at the end. thats not necessarily true in all schools. at least at Lincoln IB prep they dont do that.
.... | March 23, 2011 at 10:16 am
in my case my kids are 6 years apart. one in 1st grade and the other in 8th grade. next year they will be at different schools anyway.🙂 i did fight the battle of keeping them in the same school but obviusly i didnt win.
Mayfair Dad | March 23, 2011 at 10:29 am
We have a few newbies on this thread so I will repeat my signature rant about consistent grading. All of CPS needs to be on the same grading scale, and I would propose the good old fashioned A = 100-91, B = 90-81, C = 80-71, D = 70-61 or some very close version to this.
Why? Because in the seventh grade SE High School derby, your Tier 4 kid will lose his spot at Northside, Payton, Jones and WY if Buffy or Jody bring home a few 92 Bs. And if you are in Tier 4, you are already “penalized” by your relative wealth. There is no reason to pay this extra penalty for sending your child to a gifted, classic or magnet school – these are exactly the type of kids who would excel at Northside, Payton, Jones and WY.
This can be fixed by one memo from Mayor Emanuel. “Effective immediately, all schools in CPS will abide by the same grading scale…”
Rahm, I hope you’re reading.
Bombay | March 23, 2011 at 10:46 am
Isn’t this whole thing enough to make one pack up and move to Wilmette? We’re not rich, but there are condos and rentals than even we (being regular people) can afford (go to realtor.com) –plus our kids would be have automatic access to one of the best high schools in the U.S. (New Trier). To make matters worse, we live in Rogers Park. Somehow, we’re in a Tier 4 neighborhood, but we’re literally a few blacks away from a Tier 1 neighborhoood –WTH? So, by my calculation, my kids will need to have straight A’s in 7th grade and be in the 97-96th %-ile on tests to get into Northside, but if we lived a few blocks away, they would get in with scores in the 65th %-ile —HOW DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?!?!!! I’m so tired of people going on about rich people in Lincoln Park and the Gold Coast (as if they somehow represent the ‘Tier 4’ demographic most perfectly) vs. poor, single-mother-dad-in-prison-poor-no-chance-in-life kids in Lawndale and Englewood (as if they were somehow the perfect representation of Tier 1 kids). We’re paycheck-to-paycheck immigrants working several jobs to get by –how are we “privileged”? Why do my kids have to score SO mucher higher? I understand the current legal situation and quest for “equitable” demographics in the “best” schools that has led to the current admissions system, but how can people not expect to be bitter when admission to a “good” school is so entirely dependent on seemingly arbitrary “non-academic” qualification beyond the control of applicants. New York City admit students to SE High Schools (Bronx Science, Brooklyn Tech, Hunter College High School, …..) based on scores on admissions tests (i.e., measured ability). Period. Why is CPS so different? The latest census has shown that Chicago has lost 7% of its population since 2000. I’ve always liked Chicago, but now I understand why so many of our friends have just moved to the suburbs –and we may be next.
chiMom | March 23, 2011 at 10:46 am
51 – you are so right about the grading scale.
cps Mom | March 23, 2011 at 10:54 am
Boombay – I think you have captured the angst perfectly. I also appreciate your frank discussion/evaluation of tiers and the variety of Chicago “stereotypes”. I totally agree.
I think that there has to be a better way to measure. Looking at the 800 plus posts in the elementary section only reinforces that there are many excellent candidates of all races that could easily be channeled into SE. Many of these excellent candidates black/white/Latino are being passed up due to tier system.
Mayfair Dad | March 23, 2011 at 11:00 am
@ Bombay: I feel for you, bro. You are exactly the family that gets screwed in the Tier system’s reliance on imprecise census tract data. Is every family that lives in a Tier 4 neighborhood a true Tier 4 family, with all of the implied economic advantages? Certainly not. Conversely, I think everyone on this board knows of a high net worth family living in a $1.5M greystone that is somehow categorized as Tier 3. How does that happen? Is that fair?
I went to Libertyville High School (#8 in Illinois) and the selective enrollment admissions process consisted of walking to the corner and getting on a school bus. Makes you think.
60646 Mom | March 23, 2011 at 11:07 am
55 Mayfair Dad – The suburban schools are still like that. Entrance exam not admissions test. But keep in mind New Trier, Maine South, etc. all have thier own problems. There is no one great school anywhere. Hopefully your kids are smart enough to stay away from trouble in any high school. Hang in there.
Mayfair Dad | March 23, 2011 at 11:24 am
@ 56: We’re not leaving anytime soon. Mayfair Son is headed to Lincoln Park IB in the Fall and we are excited to be part of this storied learning community.
FYI, most people think IB stands for International Baccalaureate but it actually means: ” I got Bs in seventh grade.”🙂
mom2 | March 23, 2011 at 11:42 am
Mayfair Dad, I love your new meaning for IB. So funny!
cps Mom | March 23, 2011 at 11:42 am
Mayfair Dad – I always wondered what that meant. LOL
Notobsessingthisyear | March 23, 2011 at 11:46 am
Mayfair Dad — I am actually hopeful about my kids going to Lincoln Park — in any program. I think that school is on the rise in all aspects and could be one of the few, truly great neighborhood schools for kids of all academic abilities.
At least I’m hopeful! I’d love to see more options (like Alcott and Ogden) for automatic acceptance that still provide the entire high school experience — sports, drama, etc.
showmedastats | March 23, 2011 at 12:29 pm
I’m tuning in today just to see if there were any second round letters and of the 60-odd messages posted here as of noon, I see none? Could just be battle fatigue, or the fact that they sent out 25% more first round acceptances this year made 2nd round relevant only for a few of the SEHS schools that wouldn’t wind up as first choice for the typical tier 4 reader of this blog?
Last year, CPS didn’t publish statistics for second round selections until “several weeks” after the letters were mailed (the PDF here – http://cpsmagnet.org/apps/news/show_news.jsp?REC_ID=135545&id=0) had a creation date of April 16th) although there’s no reason I can discern for this lag. (I guess it would just take all of the excitment out of waiting for the second round letter.)
I’m rather curious if some of the most sought-after schools are now grappling with class sizes significantly larger than last year’s? If so, then CPS will have achieved a perfecta, by managing to tick off not only the families missing cutoffs, but also the ones who made it in.
Mayfair Dad | March 23, 2011 at 12:38 pm
@ 58 – 60: When all is said and done, LPIB is the perfect fit for my son. He is a different kind of kid, a different type of learner, and I am confident he will thrive in this environment. It won’t be easy, but he will rise to the challenge. We embrace it. (and I say “we” because I will be the one riding his butt – and celebrating his victories – for four years.)
Did you imagine it was easy being Mayfair Son? Already ordered my LPHS sweatshirt online to wear this Spring.
Good luck to everybody!
cpsobsessed | March 23, 2011 at 12:45 pm
I’m going to do post on this once the letter madness dies down, but here’s a great article about a new book on the college app process:
The author says this which makes me get all teary-eyed. It’s like the high school app process x 100 with an emotional component thrown in!
“College admissions, from the mother’s and father’s point of view, is all of parenthood in concentrated form, crammed into a single adventure. We fulfill ourselves by denying ourselves, preparing the people we can’t live without to live without us.”
cpsobsessed | March 23, 2011 at 12:49 pm
So it looks like the calculation of “final grade” for the 4 classes probably varies by school and might be worth discussing at the begining of the year with teacher/admin. I bet Eric Zorn knows. 🙂
@Mayfair Dad, you’ll have to keep us all posted on how the “butt riding” goes as I anticipate a lot of that in my future….
glad it is over | March 23, 2011 at 12:50 pm
Second Round Offer today – Jones. Ranked 4, tier 4. Turned down Whitney. Northside ranked first. Total Points 882 My son has decided to accept St. Ignatius
.... | March 23, 2011 at 1:06 pm
@65 (glad its over)
i’m assuming you turned down Whitney for the hopes of 2nd round 1st choice? Iggy is great. My son applied but didnt get in.
so what happens to the seat at Jones that you won’t accept, where does it go? there is no round 3. does this offer have a deadline?
CPSmomof3 | March 23, 2011 at 1:13 pm
Mayfair Dad, I’m with ‘ya on excitement for LPHS. Where did you order your clothing? Daughter asking for some and I didn’t see it on the LPHS website….thanks!
showmedastats | March 23, 2011 at 1:15 pm
@66 – presumably they send out more round 2 offers than there are seats, following the same logic of overbooking at round 1. But unless they did this very expertly, there will probably have to be rounds 3 (and beyond) for some of the schools.@65 – I assume WY was third choice?
PD | March 23, 2011 at 1:23 pm
did you do Principal Discretion?
glad it is over | March 23, 2011 at 1:24 pm
WY was third choice, considered it but decided St. Ignatius was a better fit. I’m not sure what happens to his offer; hopefully it will go to someone who wants to be there. It is unfortunate that we weren’t able to opt out of the whole process once we got his initial offer. I didn’t want to take a seat from someone else.
HSObsessed | March 23, 2011 at 1:25 pm
@52 Bombay — The tier system is imperfect, to be sure, but so was the previous system of admissions using race as the primary factor. As you may recall, until last year, there was a cap of 35 percent for white students for magnets and SE schools if more qualified white kids applied for a school than available spots. This is because CPS was working under a consent decree worked out in the 1980s with the federal government to racially desegregate as many schools as possible. This put at a disadvantage white children of low socioeconomic status living in the city, and there are plenty: think offspring of Bosnian or Ukrainian immigrants living in small apartments, with low English skills, working as hairdressers and drywallers. Their children had less chance of scoring high against the children of surgeons, lawyers, accountants who lived in affluent areas and who happen to be African-American, Asian, or Hispanic heritage, and there are plenty of them. But we didn’t hear many complaints about that system, and you know why? First of all, that system was never laid out so clearly for the public as the current system is, and second, those who were most at a disadvantage were too busy cutting hair and hanging drywall 12 hours a day to complain on a blog site.
The current system puts at a disadvantage people whose individual situation makes them lower SES than their address reflects, but I think many people underestimate the advantages they have. It’s like those studies that show that no matter whether a person is earning $40,000 a year or $400,000 a year, they always think that “rich” people are making 50 percent more.
I’m saying neither system is perfect and until we get to the point where each applicant’s parents have to show up to CPS to prove their household income, show their mortgage statement, and give a sample of their English skills, I’m not sure we’ll ever get there. Maybe if enough bugs cover the windshield, they’ll have to replace it with something else.
CPS60646 | March 23, 2011 at 1:44 pm
#65 – St. Iggys is a fine school. It was very hard to get in this year — same as Loyola. Good luck. Go have a drink & relax.
cps Mom | March 23, 2011 at 1:56 pm
@66 – they do send out more offers than space hoping to avoid 3rd round
@70 – Last year there was an opt out (as I recall?). That should definitely be an option to avoid “the dance” with those uninterested.
@71- I believe there are more low income whites and other races that are high scoring than you give credit. Of course we will never be able to find that out unless we try a merit based system and incorporate tutoring, test prep and “homework clubs” at the primary grade levels of CPS. The AC’s, RGC’s, magnets and other great schools are loaded with low income kids. The tier system was incorporated to emulate race diversity and is largely failure because there is a relatively small number of acceptances in relation to the total number of applicants. Where those accepted will be at the top of the tier, there are enough misclassified families (either by race or income) to greatly skew the desired results making it pretty much unfair.
@62 Mayfair dad – a loss for Lane
LPHS Field Hockey | March 23, 2011 at 2:07 pm
Today, March 23rd, at 4pm, Lincoln parent Megan Brown will be hosting a meeting at LPHS for the first LPHS Field Hockey Team. There were some 8th grade Lincoln girls that played last fall and she wants to make sure any 8th grade student considering attending LPHS knows about tomorrow’s meeting. Her grade 8 daughter, Brooke, will be going and walking over after school. Any questions, please email Megan at email@example.com Thank you!
glad it is over | March 23, 2011 at 2:18 pm
@69 No PD – thought about it. He is a really good student, the SEHS 98% all A’s (94 is an A at our parish school), but the Jesuits have over 500 years of experience in education and that was good enough for him!
Stressed by CPS | March 23, 2011 at 4:30 pm
About split grades: My child had 2A’s and 2 B’s in 7th grade in Math. He ended up with the B for the SEHS app because of his overall average which was a 91 and at his school a 91 is a B. Lost 25 points right there when at A LOT of other elementary schools, a 91 is an A. So from my own experience, we didn’t get the higher grade when it was split.
Curious | March 23, 2011 at 4:41 pm
Do SEHS Principal’s really exercise the 5% discretion to select students for the PD? Does anyone know,how many applicants applied for the PD per each SEHS??
LPHS Field Hockey | March 23, 2011 at 4:48 pm
question 1. i’m hoping they do and that the % is higher.
question 2. i hope the number is very low.
PD | March 23, 2011 at 4:53 pm
I would like to know why some families decided against PD.?
Patty | March 23, 2011 at 4:56 pm
Can someone tell me how LP Double Honors program work if you are also enrolled in the Performing Arts magnet program? Is this a possibility? OR Are you allowed to only apply to one magnet program at LP?
What is the course load requirement? How years of a foreign language can the student take? I would like her to take four years of Spanish.
We plan to test for SEHS’s next year, however, we still would like to have at least three fall back schools and I am considering LPHS as an option.
SE Mom of 2 | March 23, 2011 at 4:57 pm
Final grades in 7th grade are based only on the numeric average of 1st & 2nd semester grades based on the grading scale at your child’s school. The quarter grades are not part of the equation other than they form the semester grades.
1st semester grade 92% (B at my kid’s school)
2nd semester grade 98% (A at my kids school)
Final grade (average of 2 semesters)= 95 (A)
1st semester grade 88% (B)
2nd semester grade 94% (A)
Final grade (average of 2 semesters) = 91 (B)
Curious | March 23, 2011 at 5:05 pm
@80-Patty….U should look into the SEHS sleeper school (Westinghouse College Prep). They have 4 years of foreign language (Spanish & Chinese). The word is getting out on the school and that means more & more applicants every year. http://www.newwestinghouse.org
Stressed by CPS | March 23, 2011 at 5:08 pm
ABOUT TIERS and RACE: When race was used as a factor for enrollment, a lot of people didn’t agree…probably more white people (not meaning to say that in a rude way, sorry) but at least there was a better understanding of the system and seeing the percentage of each race was clear. Either you are white, black, asian, hispanic, native american. (too bad there isn’t a multi culture because I think mixed kids are the majority these day.) With tiers, they are making an assumption about how you live, what kind of money you have, etc. And I have been reading a lot of posts where people who think Tier 4 means white and Tier 1 means black. Not everyone thinks this way but I have seen a lot of and that is a wrong assumption to make. But the tier system does not match everyone based on it’s description and that is what makes it so frustrating.
I totally get Bombay’s post about the tiers. And it is also wrong to assume that just becasue you are in Tier 4 that you are (your child) automatically smarter than those in other tiers. I say that because I see the slim margin of Tier 4’s accepted into SEES or SEHS. You have to be darn near perfect.
I am neither black or white so I fall in the middle somewhere and my tier is 3 but just because you come from a 2 parent household or your parents make 6 figures does not mean you (the child) will be the brightest or most motivated. Sometimes coming from a single parent home or being raised by your grandparents or having parents who can’t or don’t work can motivate a child to be the best they can be and they in fact are the higher scorers.
cpsmom | March 23, 2011 at 5:31 pm
I’m so beyond 7th grade grades. Can anyone comment on 2nd round SE letters or PD?
Patty | March 23, 2011 at 5:33 pm
@Curious, Thanks! I actually added that school to my list for next year when she is in 8th grade. We visited all of the SE’s this year and narrowed them down to: Young, Jones, Payton, Lindblom, Westinghouse and Lane. As I said before, CPS is giving me the choice of six schools and I plan to use each opportunity. I have to say that out of all the SE’s, Lane, Lindblom and Westinghouse surprised us the most. I were concerned about Lane’s large size but my daughter liked it. Westinghouse advanced math curriculum and facility was amazing! Lindblom was a much smaller school however I liked the inside of the building,principal and the course offerings. Traveling to an SEHS isn’t an option for us since we reside in Beverly, we really don’t have a choice but to travel.
However, I have been following cps obbsessed for about two years now, and I read about some families that didn’t get accepted anywhere. So that is why I am inquiring about LPHS and two other “fall back” schools as well.
Anonymous | March 23, 2011 at 5:38 pm
Hi! I applied for PD at Walter Payton, but was was also admitted to Loyola Academy which we REALLY love. If we are admitted to WP, which school do you think we should choose?
Patty | March 23, 2011 at 5:50 pm
@86- That is a tough decision. Both schools are excellent. You will have to weigh the pros and cons of both schools and chose from there. However, if it were my child, I would chose Payton! Only because I am really trying to avoid the costly private school route.
Allison Harris | March 23, 2011 at 5:53 pm
Patty — my daughter will start the performing arts and double honors magnet programs at LPHS this fall. You can be in both of these magnet programs together, but not performing arts and IB.
The three magnet programs each have separate applications. Testing is required for the IB program but not for the HH/AP program. You must meet minimum academic criteria to be eligible to test for IB and to apply for HH/AP. The IB application, if you qualify, is automatically an application for the HH/AP program. The performing arts program requires an audition, interview and music/drama resume. I know this year of 8th graders accepted into a ‘pre-IB’ program (which I had never heard of) where they are allowed to take some IB courses and some HH courses as freshmen if that applies to their situation (test scores??).
I can’t say much about the curriculum as we will just be signing up for classes this weekend, but I do know from the printed materials we got that performing arts means one extra class period a day in music (either vocal or instrumental, whichever you enrolled in, and presumably drama-related coursework if you are in that program). One thing I like (so far!) about LPHS is the flexibility. There are classes at the regular, honors, double honors, AP and IB levels, so your student — depending on aptitude and interest — is free to move among these levels (even IB!) if they perform well and are recommended by their teachers. Similarly, if a student is struggling, they can step back from double honors to honors, for example, in that class. Maybe this is true at the SE schools, too.
Hope this helps!
Patty | March 23, 2011 at 6:41 pm
@88. Allison Harris – Thank You!!! This is why I love this blog. When I visited LPHS website, it didn’t break down how the two programs would work together. I completely understand now. So assuming if she is admitted into both programs, she would have probably an eight period class school day. I am also like how LPHS offer various learning abilities levels;regular, honors, double honors, AP and IB levels.Thank you so much, I will add this to my list of schools to apply to next year. I just need two more “fall back” schools now. I appreciate this site so much, extremely valuable!
cps Mom | March 23, 2011 at 6:51 pm
#33 worried – anxious to hear about any news on Lane. So far no one has posted. Good luck.
glad it is over | March 23, 2011 at 7:13 pm
@79 and @84 We chose not to submit a PD because my son (after his intial disappointment) wasn’t committed to going to Northside. We felt that if we went through the PD process and he was accepted then he should attend Northside. We could have played up the athletics (I heard some of these schools really need athletes) and his good grades. Being male wouldn’t have hurt either. I would love to see the breakdown of percentages of males vs females. Based on the trends in education today, I would hazard a guess more females are accepted into SE than males. Also to beat the dead “grade” horse, the archdiocese will not change its grading scale; however, some schools are adopting a percentage “grade” which they submit to CPS. I think that is a better solution than making all grading scales the same.
cps Mom | March 23, 2011 at 7:38 pm
FYI – everyone. They do take 5% for PD, they look at all the applicants and the picks are monitored to ensure that there are no political connections (or should I say motives). It’s a good idea to apply if your scores are close to the cut off and especially if there was just 1 “off” item like a test.
It takes some work but I would figure that at least half the applicants don’t really put enough effort into the application. The odds are good and a school like Lane would take 50 kids.
Submit teacher recommendations, letters from a church or community program that you volunteer at, certificates from sports, any awards, talents, instruments etc. If you think hard enough there are probably lots of accomplishments. Write a thorough essay and have someone good review and edit. Biggest mistake – applying to a school that does not match your talent (in particular, your score).
Don’t mean to preach but it looks like many people figure that it’s not worth a try. That is an advantage. It is also a way for high scoring tier 3 and 4 kids to get in because in this process, tiers are not a factor.
Jones Parent | March 23, 2011 at 7:39 pm
Jones sent out more 2nd round letters than spots, so if you declinded, you did not hurt another kid’s chances. Jones had almost 200 PD applications for 10 spots. They’re still reading the applications.
Good luck to everyone still waiting.
worried | March 23, 2011 at 9:06 pm
@90 No we haven’t received anything and I beginning to suspect we won’t with the extra acceptances, the difficulty getting in this year to any SEHS, and the new Academic Center. I’m kicking myself now for not applying for principal discretion, although at the time it seemed right not to. He didn’t exactly fit any of the criteria- he’s not a super star athlete or musician and we didn’t feel we had an especially strong case with only one bad test score. Plus he was so close to the cut-off, we thought he had a good chance in second round. How wrong I was! We didn’t know that the schools were over accepting this year or that Lane would be adding the academic center. My son had a really low (uncharacteristically so) 7th grade ISAT math score, which despite his doing well on everything else, really lowered his total score. It also knocked him out of a place at Von Steuben and Lincoln Park IB or HH. Needless to say after all of our preparation and work these past two years I’m disappointed in how things have played out. Our son’s a very good student and deserves a decent education, but has somehow fallen through the cracks in this very faulty system.
Curios | March 23, 2011 at 9:15 pm
@cps Mom ..Thanks for the info regarding the PD process. I’m beginning to like my kid’s chances.
Gayfair Dad | March 23, 2011 at 9:55 pm
Get in line for FOIA requests regarding PD decisions.
cps Mom | March 23, 2011 at 10:03 pm
To worried – still not over. Sounds like he’s close so a second round could do it. I read in the Lane AC post that they will not reduce the number of 9th grade seats this year. There is always a possibility that seats free up later too. One other thought, if you are interested in LP, they are a little more “relaxed” with enrollment issues since they are not bound by SE rules. Might be worth a try to contact them about any openings in the honors program and explain your story. Got my fingers crossed for you.
momof3boys | March 24, 2011 at 8:32 am
To worried –my son did not have a good year for his ISATS as well, but i sent in his EXPLORE results to LP. The admissions person said that any score over 16 was considered great because they expect them to go up as they go through HS. Anyway, he was admited to LP HH/AP despite his low ISATs. He had 2A’s and 2B’s. We did the PD. I hope he gets into LT. IMy older son told me to make sure that I mention that he has a brother at LT. I hope that helps, plus he’s an athlete and has a 504 (not that helped him). Anyway, I agree, I would call LPHS and see if you could get your child in…
momof3boys | March 24, 2011 at 8:35 am
@92, for the PD, you can only submit 3 letters of recommedations. They had some pretty strcit (strange) rules, like no staples, paper clips, etc. anything that didnt comply, they were not going to include it with your packet when they forwarded it to the principal… too bad, i had collected a whole bunch of letters and I had to choose the 3 best ones, which was tough…
PD mom | March 24, 2011 at 8:46 am
i called CPS downtown and i was told 3 min letters but i could add as many as i wanted. the reason for no staples and clips is because they were going to scan our kids info/package and send to the school electronically.
PD mom | March 24, 2011 at 8:56 am
@96. Gayfair Dad
Get in line for FOIA requests regarding PD decisions.? what is that?
PD mom | March 24, 2011 at 8:59 am
@96. Gayfair Dad
Get in line for FOIA requests regarding PD decisions.? what is that? Ok, I looked it up.🙂 but still what do you mean by that? who would ask for that? school or parents who were rejected? sorry, early in the morning, didnt have my coffee yet and i’m confused.🙂
Mayfair Dad | March 24, 2011 at 10:17 am
My moniker-challenged colleague is referencing the intense scrutiny this year’s Principal Discretion choices will be under after the scandals and abuse of years past. (The Sun-Times and others did a big investigative piece on “clouted” students who undeservedly got into U of I Champaign, then followed the trail of evidence and – big surprise! – it was happening at SE high schools in Chicago, too.) Can’t wait to read about all the aldermens kids, big-shot campaign donors, and Rahm buddies who’s kids benefitted from PD.
PD mom | March 24, 2011 at 10:22 am
ugh! i know that’s the reason why i was worried to even go through the PD. we know of friends who kids definitely struggled through Payton and WY because they got in through PD on sports and sibling connection
RL Julia | March 24, 2011 at 10:59 am
FOIA is freedom of information act – basically it is the system one can use to request information on a specific topic or action from any form of government. Its doable for PD decisions…. I suppose but it there are guidelines and rules to it (surprised?). Since PD decisions concern individual minors I don’t know what would be released but its an interesting idea.
rianna | March 24, 2011 at 12:12 pm
What did #91 mean about the archdiocese not changing its scale but some schools submitting a percentage grade for submission. Also, does the CPS send out rules to private schools and homeschool or alternative schools about how to count the grades? I think my principal reports only the 2nd semester grade, which is pretty arbitrary, but I can’t point to any rules about what he is supposed to be doing.
cps Mom | March 24, 2011 at 12:26 pm
Do you think that Little Johnnies mom is going to penalize her son with a B grade? I know of someone who took their child out of 5th grade to home school. Amazingly now in an AC.
... | March 24, 2011 at 12:38 pm
there is a crazy mom that took her kid out off Pre IB @ Lincoln in 8th grade to home school. i forgot about him. i wonder where he ended up for next year. the kid had already skipped a grade.
What? | March 24, 2011 at 2:30 pm
108 – I hear he’s teaching at NS. Go figure
@109 | March 24, 2011 at 2:38 pm
funny. actually his brother goes there.🙂
rianna | March 24, 2011 at 2:51 pm
okay, homeschooling is a little bite of it, but answer me for the archdiocese and other private schools. Does CPS put out any rules about grading– guidelines?
bagg | March 24, 2011 at 3:13 pm
@111 rianna, my kids go to private school (non-religious) and AFAIK there were no adjustments to grades that were submitted to CPS.
Curious | March 24, 2011 at 3:17 pm
Getting back to the PD process. If a kid’s essay is less than 600 words, what are the odds of that kid getting picked? Versus a kid that has 900 words on the essay?
mom2 | March 24, 2011 at 3:20 pm
Were there any 2nd round letters/offers made to any SE high schools? I’m not talking about PD, just round 2. Curious if their decision to make extra round 1 offers made it impossible to do any round 2 offers.
PD mom | March 24, 2011 at 3:26 pm
no idea about the essay but i made sure his was 1000 words. well written of course. im pretty sure it doesnt matter because you can say all you have to say using less words.🙂
PD mom | March 24, 2011 at 3:28 pm
i’ve only heard of two 2nd rounds letters through this blog. i think one was Jones?
Curious | March 24, 2011 at 4:30 pm
2 of my neighbors gave up their SEHS seat, for a luck of the draw in round 2 and they haven’t received any mail regarding round 2.
Mayfair Dad | March 24, 2011 at 4:47 pm
Seems odd no confirmation of a round two Lane Tech acceptance letter from anyone on this blog. I only recall one round two acceptance confirmed for Jones.
Perhaps they erred on the conservative side on last year’s round one figuring out a new system, and subsequently filled empty spots with round two, round three, etc.
With one year of the new system under their belt, CPS felt they could be a little more aggressive on round one this year and accepted 1,000 more kids, eliminating the need for a round two at most SE high schools.
The notable exception being Jones, with a new addition being built, may have run the numbers based on last years capacity and came up short, making a round two necessary.
Just my theory.
cps Mom | March 24, 2011 at 4:52 pm
Good theory. I know they only have a few spaces to fill at Jones. I think it was only 1 Jones 2nd round and 1 Payton PD. Yikes! They change the game plan every year.
cpsobsessed | March 24, 2011 at 4:55 pm
Man, if no second rounds, that is frustrating. They should communicate that so people know not to take the chance and turn stuff down…..
just amom | March 24, 2011 at 4:55 pm
PD has not been decided yet. PD notifications are being sent on 4/15
cps Mom | March 24, 2011 at 5:02 pm
Hmmmm – I also wonder, if schools close admissions after round 1 are they then able to fill vacated spots by rank and not be limited by tier preferences???
showmedastats | March 24, 2011 at 5:21 pm
I recall from posts earlier in the month that some people “knew” about the 1,000 seat overbooking in Round 1, but I sure didn’t (except by reading this board!) It’s crazy. Had I dropped a Payton slot in the hope NS’s cutoff would drop one point, I’d be more than frustrated. More like ballistic. Plus I’d feel the student would be entitled to “un-withdraw” because that withdrawal was sort of under false pretenses.
showmedastats | March 24, 2011 at 5:28 pm
to follow, @119 cps mom – how do you know things like the number of PD spots at Payton? Chatty teachers? ESP? I’ve always been a little blissfully ignorant of the CPS underbelly except when I’m drawn in on occasions like these.
glad it is over | March 24, 2011 at 7:05 pm
I think I am the only second round to post which is stunning. I also did not know of the 1000 extra acceptances and the “no cutoff score” this year of 850 for Northside; therefore, requiring each tier to be filled fully. I think I am relatively informed and even read the minutes of the blue ribbon committee meeting. I guess OAE can do what they want. As far as grades and acceptable tests – read the webrsite. No special guidance for homeschoolers or private schools. Also, privately you can administer all sorts of different standardized test – multiple times and choose your best score. We didn’t do this but I know those who did with fantastic results.
cps Mom | March 24, 2011 at 8:00 pm
@124 – I’m an active parent and attend many of the school and public meetings. Last year when I went through the process I got involved with every CPS policy meeting and our own parent council. It was an eye opener.
I know from the process that PD is set at 5%. The principals want to have discretion and will gladly take the full 5%. This allows them to do some “hand picking” if you will. In the past this has been a source of controversy and in lieu of eliminating the process, it is now closely scrutinized.
My son did accept a spot at an SE school but I still like tuning in out of curiosity plus I hope to give a little insight now from the perspective of the SE school. I also hope that our experience and those of my sons friends/classmates can help in any way. I have to say that even though we navigated the system successfully, the process was horrible. It was extremely helpful to network on this site and find out what was happening at other schools.
Thanks again CPS Obsessed.
@123 I agree with you. I think its very important that after all the preparation and prepping, the one spot that you would have control within this crazy process – accepting an offer – the rug is pulled out.
NoMoreCPS | March 25, 2011 at 9:50 am
Wondering if 2nd round letters were really sent. I know 5 kids turning down Lane – tier 4.
mom2 | March 25, 2011 at 9:58 am
Again, I am thinking that most SE high schools (or at least Lane) had more acceptances than they expected. It is becoming quite the popular place. Lane usually has around 1050 freshman and the principal said that they had 1200 this year. If that is 1200 that accepted vs. 1200 offers, then there would be no way that they would do a round 2 even if a few people decide later to turn down the offer/acceptance. I was just curious if anyone got a round 2 letter from anywhere. I heard maybe one or two from Jones and that is it.
cpsobsessed | March 25, 2011 at 10:04 am
I just talked to OEA (on hold for 1 hour but they finally answered.)
They confirmed that only Jones, King, Westinghouse and Lindblom had a second round. I realize now that CPS can’t publicize which schools will/won’t have the 2nd round, as they have to wait to see what the acceptance rate is which puts parents in a difficult position.
I asked if there was any possiblity other than PD for getting into Lane, say later in the summer, and she said pretty much “no” because they have more than enough kids at this point.
There has to be a solution to handling the overflow of families who want a good, solid, safe high school experience. Gotta get some heads together….
cpsobsessed | March 25, 2011 at 10:24 am
While I’m on the topic, these are the neighborhood elem schools that wholey or partly feed into Lake View High School. There’s no reason that school shouldn’t be set up to handle kids from these schools who don’t get into SE high schools. Seems like there has to be a way to make LVHS work.
NoMoreCPS | March 25, 2011 at 10:27 am
I would definitely call LP if no 2nd round at Lane.
Does Lane take good athletes with A + B’s? Just wondering.
stressed out | March 25, 2011 at 10:38 am
LP is a solid alternative. that’s where we are heading. my kid got there automatically because Lincoln Elementary feeds into LPHS. Hes heading to LP double honors.
ive heard PD for Lane is almost impossible and they already have plenty of good athletes. ive heard ususally 300 kids try out for baseball.? also heard WY and Lane have the most “corrupted” PD selection. hopefully is just a rumor.
Educate | March 25, 2011 at 11:02 am
@132 stressed out. I hope that is a rumor in re: to “PD’ being corrupted at WY we are trying for there. But have a great offer if not, Lane. (It’s just a commute issue for our child.) My child did get accepted into LP IB but she liked Lane much better (even though it was further ) She liked the program just not the atmosphere. So we will be traveling 2 hrs everyday next yr, unless WY comes through.
Mayfair Dad | March 25, 2011 at 11:06 am
@ 131 – 132
As a general rule, there is no “calling” high schools at this point; the process is running its course based on applications submitted back in December 2010; we are now only learning the results. Principal Discretion applications are now closed as well. Results to this process will be known 4/15/11.
No one automatically gets into Lincoln Park High School unless you live within the attendance boundaries. Only 25% of LPHS students come from the neighborhood – the remaining 75% of LPHS students attend thru one of three magnet programs: IB, Double Honors/AP, and Performing Arts. In order to attend LPHS in one of the magnet programs, you needed to complete the application form back in December and go through the interview process. Please note: it is a DIFFERENT application process than SE High Schools. Other high schools outside of the SE High School application process include: Ogden International, Alcott, Von Steuben Scholars.
Listen up parents of seventh graders: You need to apply to ALL of these high schools and not just SE High Schools in order to have options for your child. Got it?
If your child is in 8th grade and you still don’t have a high school solution that you’re happy with, check the http://www.cpsoae.org website — there are a few new programs with applications open right now. Jump on this today. Do it!
Hope this helps.
showmedastats | March 25, 2011 at 11:49 am
Good reporting, cpsobsessed, on the absense of second round offers in the Fab4, and enduring an hour’s worth of on-hold-music in dogged pursuit of a story.
What I have not been able to find out are the projected enrollments (before PD) for freshman. I saw somewhere upstairs that Lane is at 1200 when it’s normally 1050. I know that Payton was already filling 250 seats (instead of 2010’s 170) because of some overenrollment hump of a few years ago.
These class sizes are not good news – the overbooking by 1,000 (out of fewer than 4,000 seats) – was probably the work of someone playing around with Excel and a Statistics For Dummies book, when this is the type of things airlines hire squadrons of PhDs to handle and still blow it.
Here’s my pet theory of the day. Last year, they sent out only
.... | March 25, 2011 at 11:56 am
LOL, this is funny! I’m a CPS mom and an airline employee. you are sooo right about hiring PhDs to handle and still blow it.🙂
134. Mayfair Dad | March 25, 2011 at 12:00 pm
for a kid that prepared herself for SE and ended up at LPHS it was an “automatic” smooth process. effortless. she is okay with it but extremly dissapointed.
NoMoreCPS | March 25, 2011 at 12:05 pm
CPSobsessed – thanks for all the blogging and updates this year. For all 7th grade parents — good luck next year. Apply everywhere. LP is a fine school much to offer. My son is not in the attendance area (tier 4) but was asked to take the placement test with 1/3 of his classmates based on 7th grade ISAT scores. Many of those kids did not get into Lane, but are happily figuring out car pools & bus routes to LP. Good luck everyone.
cps Mom | March 25, 2011 at 12:15 pm
Worried – I would check in with the school counselor. They have ways of reaching out to high schools. If you were told that you did not qualify to apply, why would you apply?
cps Mom | March 25, 2011 at 12:37 pm
Mayfair dad – you hit the nail on the head. No matter the program, the kids (and parents) are psyched toward SE. Maybe it would be a better idea to call some of the programs “selective enrollment” and add them to the list. Might help with disappointment and feelings of “second best”. Branding is everything.
Curious | March 25, 2011 at 12:42 pm
Recruiting Violations at Whitney Young. On today’s front page of the Chicago Tribune.
CongratsToAll | March 25, 2011 at 12:55 pm
I am okay with making the IG/DH portion of LPHS SE, but please don’t take away the neighborhood aspect of the school! I don’t know if my kids will be “gifted,” and one of the reasons we moved into the LPHS and Lincoln district was to not have to stress out about schools.
I like the fluidity of LPHS as it stands now … kids who are not in IG or DH being able to prove themselves able to tackle classes at those levels.
I hope Lakeview rises, too, and keeps its neighborhood school designation, too.
Congratulations to all!! My kids are too young for me to stress out about HS as I believe things will change a lot between now and when they apply (7 years). So, I can only try to keep track of developments. However, I hope everyone finds a place their kids love.
Educate | March 25, 2011 at 1:06 pm
i hate to be the downer of the conversation but cps has just been coming up w/crazier and crazier options for enrollment for these SE schools. Parents of 7th grader you must be on top of your child’s work for straight “a” and high isat scores unless you will not get in an SE school. There is a lot of pressure on these kids and should be this way but we can thank cps for that. My daughter and her friends (8th grade) were so stressed in 7th and continues to 8th grade. It is no way for kids to have to live worrying about where they will go to high school. We know our kids will be o.k but they don’t when they don’t get in to their school of choice. And Yes it leaves them feeling very disappointed. ( have to admit me too-when you see your kid work so hard )
MovingOn | March 25, 2011 at 1:15 pm
143 – You are so right. My son’s 7th grade teacher + principal told kids daily “you need straight A’s + great ISAT’s or you will end up at the high school you have to go to, not the one you want to go to.” Putting that on a 7th grader is wrong, wrong, wrong. My son came home with a stomachache every day at the beginning of 7th grade. What complete nonsense. Not to mention the kids that did all the hard work + ISAT = no SE anyway. We are either headed to LP or private.
cps mom | March 25, 2011 at 1:16 pm
i couldnt agree with you more. my kid prepared himself really hard since 6th grade. but yes, if you have a 7th grader and your intention is to get into SE they must get straight A’s as final grade and ISATs in the high 90%. you are right we know that they’ll be ok but unfortunately they feel very dissapointed.
LLA Mom | March 25, 2011 at 1:30 pm
@114–My son received a second round offer at King High School. His first choice was Jones, wasn’t accepted. Was accepted at Lane, which we declined. The commute was just way too far for us. We applied for PD at Jones, but we realize it’s a long shot. He was accepted at LPHS double honors program, so if Jones doesn’t come through, he’ll definitely go to LPHS. My son would have easily made it into Jones through scores alone had he not screwed up the reading comprehension portion of the SEHS exam. I really feel like he lost his place on that portion of the test and placed his answers in the wrong spot, but there is no way of actually finding that out. He has consisently scored in the 90th percentile and above each year on all tests, so to say I was disappointed is an understatement. We’re hoping that Jones comes through, but LPHS is so much better than nothing!
worried | March 25, 2011 at 1:37 pm
Thanks for the info @cpsobsessed- and for the encouragement @cps mom. I’ve been trying to get through to the OAE as well and they are so backed up they aren’t even putting people on hold any more.
As I mentioned in a previous post this process is crazy and difficult to navigate especially when they try to “fix” it every year and no one knows what to expect or how to play it.
I did get ahold of LP and was told that they are so overcrowded with acceptances this year that they are going to be in a real bind come September. So there’s no way to submit additional scores to appeal at this point- but thanks for the tip @98 and congrats to you for making it work.
So now my question is, in light of the fact that I was told by the OAE that applications were up in the thousands over previous years at SEHS’s, and St. Ignatius had a record number as well, LPHS says they’ve accepted too many to accommodate, and I read somewhere that there are something like 13,000 people on charter schools waitlists, – doesn’t it seem that there are many more kids out there trying to get into these schools this year over previous years? It seems like it’s not just more competitive, but exponentially so. Perhaps I’m reading all this data wrong, but it certainly seems that way to me. If that’s the case something’s got to change pronto- more schools, better neighborhood programs and the turn-around of these schools might just be forced into existence sooner than we thought if my guess is correct.
Mayfair Dad you are correct you HAVE to apply to all of those schools, but that doesn’t guarantee anything either. We applied to 10 schools and nothing is working for us. In any year but this year, my son would have easily gotten into Lane. I’m flummoxed to say the least.
Since Lane isn’t doing a second round, and given our odd situation, we’re going to have to consider Lakeview Honors, or private school. So, my next question is, does anyone know anything about Gordon Tech?
LLA Mom | March 25, 2011 at 1:48 pm
Also, do you think it’s worth a shot asking the OAE for my son’s actual SEHS test? I’m really curious as to how he could have screwed up so badly on one portion of the test!
MovingOn | March 25, 2011 at 1:56 pm
148 – I highly doubt OAE would hand over the test.
147. Don’t know much about Gordon, but Notre Dame (niles), St. Pat’s (chicago) and Guerin Prep (river grove) all excellent choices and not as expensive as Loyola + St. Iggy’s. Good luck.
Mayfair Dad | March 25, 2011 at 1:59 pm
@ 140 cps Mom & others
You and I generally are on the same page, but I will respectfully disagree with you on this one. Programs like LPIB, Ogden International, Alcott and Von Steuben Scholars* actually benefit from NOT being part of the SE high school madness. These programs will only get stronger due to high demand, and will attract the bright kids who – ooops! – got a couple of Bs in 7th grade but who are otherwise motivated, talented, college-bound students. Not every Tier 4 family can afford private school. (I think those St. Ignatius families must be Tier 5!)
*with apologies to the Southside peeps – I don’t know the equivalent in your neck of the woods, maybe the Agricultural Magnet School? I’ve heard good things.
Reading the obvious frustration in these posts makes me wonder if some parents were late to the party and ended up putting all their eggs in the SE high school basket. So my message to 7th grade parents is to carefully manage your child’s expectations, be open to different choices, and explore non-SE high school options.
SE | March 25, 2011 at 2:10 pm
St Iggy’s $12K tier5
Latin $30K tier 10?
our kid took the LP test. SE test, Iggy test and Latin/Parker test. apllied to all. you can’t just do SE.
Mayfair Dad | March 25, 2011 at 2:13 pm
@ 147 worried: have you tried Von Steuben? Even if the Scholars program is full, maybe your child could get in as a general population student freshman year and qualify for Scholars sophomore year. Not as well-known as LPHS but a solid program.
Also families in our neighborhood choose St. Pat’s over Gordon. Notre Dame also very popular.
I suspect the CPS algorythm (Magic 8 ball) is not performing up the the standard of so many applicants and so much shifting around. Airlines spend millions on Capacity Management systems and still don’t get it right.
Did we really think the CPS brain trust was up to the challenge?
MovingOn | March 25, 2011 at 2:15 pm
Tested LP + SE + private school + Also got accepted at North Town Academy. Anyone know anything about that charter? And got the letter last weekend Senn academy ? Anyone know about that?
moving on also | March 25, 2011 at 2:23 pm
know nothing about North Town. we tested for all as well. got into Latin and LP. heading to LP. we cant afford $30,000 a year. where are you heading?
The Madness | March 25, 2011 at 2:25 pm
My daughter turned down an offer to LANE, then receive a second rounder for Westington and turning it down. Submitted the paper work for PD. Our child scored 841 and we’re in a tier 4. She just wants to attend school near home. We have other options if PD doesn’t workout, but this is just madness.
moving on also | March 25, 2011 at 2:26 pm
@155. The Madness
im assuming you did PD for Northside or Payton?
MovingOn | March 25, 2011 at 2:26 pm
154 – Got into North Town (lottery). Son won’t go there – longer school day + longer school year. Got into LP but going to St Pat’s for various reasons. He wants to be there, so I’m fine with it.
moving on also | March 25, 2011 at 2:28 pm
where is St. Pat’s? my son would only do Loyola or Iggy if catholic. didnt look at any of the other catholics even though we receive all their offers.
MovingOn | March 25, 2011 at 2:30 pm
158 — 5900 W Belmont, Chicago
Very accessible w/public transportation
The Madness | March 25, 2011 at 2:40 pm
MovingOn; No, we were hoping Jones for second round cause she had, what I thought, was a close score for second round selection.
The Madness | March 25, 2011 at 2:41 pm
MovingOn; Jones for PD.
cpsobsessed | March 25, 2011 at 2:49 pm
Mayfair Dad, I’ve made a note to post your suggestions at a relevant time next year. Great advice!
So, I was talking to a neighbor who has a daughter at Bell. She says that about 1/3 of the kids there got into a SE HS (from the neighborhood program.) I’d assume this would be similar at most of the other similar schools that show good test scores. that leave 50! kids from that school alone who need a HS “home.” Her child is headed to North town, but she wasn’t quite sure what everyone else is doing.
There is a tipping point happening and there has to be a high school for these kids to land.
@147: Worried, I’d urge you to get in touch with the North Side HS Initiative (I have a link on the right) since they’ve got a group focusing on Lake View. they’ve attended LSC meetings, etc and might help you feel more comfortable about the place (or not?) or maybe even rally some of the other north side parents who need an option right now. It is 6 months until schools starts. Still some time to work with the admin there to possibly make some changes/suggestions if enough parents show interest.
If you check the school out, let us know….
@162. cpsobsessed | March 25, 2011 at 3:02 pm
same thing at lincoln elementary. all of IB went to SE (thats 30 kids) and 1/3 of kids of the regular program got into SE and the rest going to LPHS.
PD | March 25, 2011 at 3:05 pm
i was told by PCS when i called that the SE exam score didnt matter for PD as long as kid met 1 of the 4 criteria (sports, community work, family issues, etc)
PD | March 25, 2011 at 3:06 pm
meant to say CPS
MovingOn | March 25, 2011 at 3:08 pm
165 – More unfair nonsense.
RL Julia | March 25, 2011 at 4:44 pm
Thank you Mayfair Dad – you are spot on in your comments.
You get a big gold star (or a beer) from me -especially since I know you were really worried about your son’s high school options last year at this time. Thanks for being such a positive force – and for letting us all watch the metamorphosis from worried MayfairDad concerned that there wasn’t enough to go around to confident MayfairDad who knows that there are many, many (often under publicized, undiscovered) options – and that furthermore there is no such thing as the perfect school.
If anything, I am heartened by the discussions on the SEHS board this go around. I should do a scan and figure out ALL the different high school programs mentioned as positive, doable options in the post – I bet it is double or triple what was thought of “acceptable” from last year.
I will be counting on you to talk me out of the tree next year when my son contends with the whole SEHS process (because despite my husband and my idea that he can stay at Taft’s IB program and get a fine education, he has other ambitions).
I also would refute this idea (@147) that 1,000’s more applied to the SEHS’s this year than last. Maybe yes, Maybe no – but if they did, it wasn’t reflected in radically higher admission scores across ALL tiers – which is statistically speaking what dumping 1,000’s more applications into the system should do.
Besides – I seem to recall that the OAE said the exact same thing LAST year and it seems unlikely that there are really that many more kids who are eligible or who have a shot to apply this year over last year’s pool. The only difference this year from last year is that you have a horse in this year’s race. I know I’ll feel the same way myself next year.
Mayfair Dad | March 25, 2011 at 5:07 pm
Thanks RL Julia, its been an interesting year.
Just starting on the college research – finished Crazy U, I highly recommend it. Hey, everybody needs a hobby right?🙂
5:00 p.m. already! Time to begin my Friday night metamophosis into Malbec Dad.
cpsobsessed | March 25, 2011 at 5:09 pm
I agree with RL Julia.
So is there another, more fun message board where you post as Malbec Dad? If so, send us the link!
cps Mom | March 25, 2011 at 5:52 pm
Last year the number of SE applications were 13,000. I heard something like 15,000 this year – it’s not an illusion. The charters that many are protesting are ridiculously hard to get in.
Seems to me that public education has become much more “on the radar”. Take a look at many of the posts. There aren’t many currently in private and probably staying in private that don’t attempt to get into some of Chicago’s finer public institutions of learning.
I agree with 147 – seems to be more and more every year. But view this as a good thing. Lincoln Park – can’t get in. 8 months ago we were debating the worth of the IB program vs. SE and reputation of the “a rough” element impacting desirability of the DH program.
“worried”, please keep us apprised of your findings. Especially interested in what you think of Lakeview.
GoodThing | March 25, 2011 at 7:01 pm
170 – The good news is the “rough” element will be next years junior & senior class. Freshman are in their own building so they will only deal with “rough” as sophomores. The “rough” has been geatly diminished with the demolition of CGreen. This will help LP improve their image with the NW side crowd.
Joe | March 26, 2011 at 1:06 am
I asked on a prior thread but didn’t get a response. Does anyone have any info about Alcott? Is it a good school? Does anyone send their child there or know someone who does?
cps Mom | March 26, 2011 at 10:41 am
I know of one person that attended the grade school and then got into a selective enrollment school. They liked the school very much. The high school is small and they opted for selective enrollment (understandably) but it was certainly an option. I would also add that the school has an excellent reputation. At this point given what has happened with the lack of 2nd round offers and openings in general, I would not pass up any opportunities. Take a tour and check it out. See if your child can shadow – I found that shadowing gave my son an excellent idea of not only the curriculum but also a “feel” of the social scene.
Anonymous | March 26, 2011 at 6:50 pm
Does Walter Payton tend to pick people for PD?? Any info about W.P Principals discretion would be very helpful!!!! Our other option is Loyola Academy which is an excellent school!!!!!!!! Wp vs. Loyola?? Any opinions?? Thanks a ton!!!
cpsobsessed | March 26, 2011 at 9:16 pm
***INFO FROM OAE REGARDING HIGH SCHOOL APPLICATIONS***
The number of applications we received was approximately the same for the 2010-2011 school year vs. the 2011-2012 school year — about 13,000 applications. The difference between the two years is that we made almost 1,000 more offers in the first round this year, which left fewer seats open for the second round.
(Note: I’ve been getting a response within around 24 hours in the Comment form on http://www.cpsmagnet.org. Just got this one on Saturday night!)
So clearly there was an intent to reduce rounds after 1st round this year. But same # of overall kids applying.
Jones Parent | March 26, 2011 at 10:16 pm
Yes, this is what I was told as well…last year they were still filling spots in August and wanted to avoid that. So turning down your first round offer was not good strategy this year. Last year, there were only 2/9 schools without 2nd round offers and this year there were 5/9. With so many variables year to year, the best strategy is to apply EVERYWHERE you can, and take your best (for your child) first offer. “safety”schools are becoming harder to get into as more and more parents are broading their minds and options.
bagg | March 26, 2011 at 11:41 pm
Mayfair Dad, we too are already looking on to the college process. Since daughter will be in the east coast this summer, I hope to sneak in two college visits.
cps Mom | March 27, 2011 at 8:54 am
@175 CPSO – The “selective prep” site says 16,000 (not that they are the end all source) it’s just that all this conflicting information is mind boggling for parents trying to navigate the system. Last year OAE published a statement that they had 13,000 applicants along with a summary of the process and tier results etc. This year no published statement or number. I’m a little skeptical of some of this initial data released by CPS and wonder if they mentioned an intention to release a final statement with all the critical numbers. I think it would help parents in the decision process and formalize their results to the public.
Totally agree with my fellow “Jones Parent” and others about broadening of minds and options and application strategy. I see your point that a school does not know about a 2nd round until they get responses but also feel that they should have made it known well before the acceptance date that an additional 1,000 acceptances went out.
RL Julia | March 27, 2011 at 12:36 pm
Not to be negative about Selective Prep – but they only have to gain from anxious parents. CPS may be borderline incompetent in many ways, but I’d take their numbers over a an entity that only stands to gain from parents feeling like its stiff competition out there and YOUR KID NEEDS (pay them for that) extra edge….I am just skeptical that way. At some point is 13,000 really that different from 15,000 – if anything its probably not like the additional 2,000 kids (if that is what it is) are all super high-achieving kids – its just 2,000 more kids on a bell curve to the application criteria….
cps Mom | March 27, 2011 at 2:47 pm
@179 – I hear you. Selective Prep is an ad but many use it as a resource (I see it everywhere on this site, at school and online). Jonina Lerner does do a good accumulating data and analyzing it whereas CPS does not offer this. CPS would be much more credible if they posted scores and stats and “signed off” on the real data. Many posters are talking about “transparency” of the data. I think that it is of public concern to know what the trends are in the way of score and socio-economic data (since that’s how the selection process is run).
Maybe the 2,000 (if that’s what it is) are super high-achieving kids not making cut offs or accepting alternate programs out of a belief that there will be some kind of 2nd round in selective enrollment. I just feel that @147 may have a valid point. Not only are the SE schools filled up – as per usual – but so are the alternate programs and the private schools. So what is the difference between this year and previous years? I don’t know. Maybe more applicants??
Imagine – CPS issues a report that shows all their high school options, how many applied and how many got in. And to further add to the high school wish list, an application that lists all the school programs (like the elementary schools, SEES, Magnet, neighborhood) so that parents can apply and rank 10 or so choices.
Gayfair Dad | March 27, 2011 at 8:16 pm
Fee-based selective test prepping may be a good option for some, however, I am glad I took the advice of experienced folks and skipped it. Things worked out well without the added stress and expense. There is more than one way to skin a CPS cat.
IB&RGC Mom | March 27, 2011 at 9:02 pm
So I haven’t read all the posts on the high school acceptances, but I wanted to share this info.
I was at Lane today for the AC open house and in speaking to Dr. LoBosco I was curious if there were more applications for Principle Discretion due to tiers (of course at the high school level). The number has been increasing and she said they had more applications this year then last year. 700 is the number she said, and that they had 200 more acceptances then they either anticipated or over last year (I don’t remember exactly which it was).
worried | March 28, 2011 at 1:27 am
When I posted my thoughts on it being more competitive this year, I was actually just asking what others thought and if they had encountered information similar to what I’d been told (by OAE, LPHS admissions, the cps website where I read about the charter school wait-lists.) I guess the person I spoke with at OAE was misinformed, especially as I see the OAE is now saying there were the same amount of applicants this year as last. I’m just trying to figure it all out and don’t presume to have any answers. It’s also hard to be objective when it’s your child who’s been disappointed, particularly when he continues to get straight A’s (!!!) all this year at Bell. So yes, things are different when you have a horse in the race.
I have to say if I were one of the kids who turned down a 2nd or 3rd choice offer to try for a 1st choice, I would be really upset right now. We aren’t in that position but we did sort of assume that there would be a second round at Lane because there always has been before. That was obviously a mistake which I won’t make again.
We will be looking at Lakeview and I’ll keep you all posted. Unfortunately, there is a huge stigma against the school by other kids, and other parents which is an additional obstacle that I’d prefer my son didn’t have to deal with on top of everything else. He’s learning early that life is full of disappointments and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. Things will work out one way or another and I have no doubt he’ll succeed wherever he goes.
Curious | March 28, 2011 at 3:32 pm
3-weeks away from receiving the PD letter.
PD | March 28, 2011 at 4:24 pm
my impression is that we would only receive PD letter if accepted, correct?
another PD mom | March 28, 2011 at 4:38 pm
we also send our PD application to Lane? how about you? do you know anything about how many applicants they had per school?
Curious | March 28, 2011 at 5:02 pm
@PD…From my understanding everyone will receive the acceptance / denial letter. …@PDMOM…lane tech as our PD choice, we are crossing our fingers like in the movie “waiting for superman “..if my kid doesn’t get in via PD,then we are off to Lincoln Park H.S
“Double Honors” program.
Curious | March 29, 2011 at 1:35 pm
Does anyone know if we are allowed to call the principle of a SEHS, to make our case on why, our son /daughter should be selected for the PD pick.
AnxiousMom#2 | March 29, 2011 at 5:01 pm
if you did that it would definitely disqualify your child. it was mentioned in the package.
Hawthorne mom | March 29, 2011 at 7:03 pm
If there were 13000 applicants, how many spots at these schools for freshman: WY, Jones, Lane, NSCP, Payton and Lincoln Park IB or double honors, total. Less than 2500? So that’s a 10-15% shot at getting in?
cps Mom | March 29, 2011 at 7:45 pm
plus you would need to figure the weighted average per tier because if the number of qualified students are not equal between tiers, the tier with with fewer applicants also has a better chance. Tiers were divided up based upon number of school age children in each area NOT students qualified to test. Plus factor in rank which can be all tiers but likely skewed toward 3 and 4 tier. Without all the numbers it’s hard to know what the real chance is of making it into one of these schools – other than “you need to score perfectly”.
Plenty of kids do get in and it’s good for the kids to strive for these schools. So, now that all our kids are on task how (or where) do we channel this thirst for knowledge and desire to achieve? Maybe we should do what the charters do. Open up a Selective Enrollment school in an underused building then as everyone flocks to it, close down the underutilized neighborhood school.
I’m getting some kind of Monty Python image on that.
cpsobsessed | March 29, 2011 at 7:57 pm
I’ve been thinking about the 13,000 (or 11,000 or whatever.) I know there are something like 28K kids per grade so that is close to half the kids testing for SE high school. I know you have to meet something like the 50th rank on ISATs (?) to apply. I remember reading that they let so many kids apply because *some* on the low end of that criteria end up getting in. Seems a little inefficient to me to have that many kids apply.
I guess I don’t know if I’d say a kid has a 10-15% shot, since that sort of applies random selection. Really a kid has either a very good shot or a slim shot depending on how they score.
I just read a study about lottery schools that said that upper income families are much more likely to apply to magnets, so between that fact and the fact that Tier 3 and 4 kids likely score higher on the ISAT (and thus qualify for applying) I’d bet money that there are more Tier 3 and 4 kids applying so for the Tier slots, their chances are slimmer. However they may have a better chance at the rank seats (numbers we would all love to see, of course!) **Disclaimer: this post contains all kinds of generalizations about Tier.**
cpsobsessed | March 29, 2011 at 8:01 pm
Speaking of Tiers, I used the CPS tool today to look at the boundaries of my census tract to see if it includes the blocks just west of me. There are kids there who probably should be counted as Tier 1 but we are Tier 3. We also have some million dollar homes in the Tier (or at least they were a couple years ago.) Not like this should surprise anyone — I know we all know the system is flawed. It’s just shocking to see it on the map and realize the unfairness to certain kids in the neighborhood.
showmedastats | March 29, 2011 at 10:28 pm
Give the tier system another two years, tops, before it’s discarded, or struck down by the Court. Keep the pressure on the “decision makers” by pointing out the anomalies (and I’m not even sure those are that anomalous, which actually says good things about the economic balance within many census tracts here.)
NOT that this would be a good idea, but anyone know why they just didn’t set up the system so that W2’s or property tax receipts weren’t made part of the application process? The latter is something the city has anyway, and the former are used for free lunch eligibility, so it’s not as if there’s a Chinese wall or something.
Albany Park Mom | March 30, 2011 at 8:57 am
@CPS obsessed – I believe you’re referring to the area in which I live. I feel comfortable that tier 3 accurately describes my family, but you are right everyone else on my block should certainly be at least tier 2. All ESL, all renters, all minimal education. Those kids have no chance competing against someone like my child, with all of her advantages. I have described this feeling to others as survivors guilt. My child got into an SEES, but what about everyone else?
Hawthorne mom | March 30, 2011 at 9:07 am
Since it is so hard to figure out how many kids per tier scored at a certain level, I wonder if it is possible to find out how many kids scored above 750. It seems like below 750, there aren’t many offers to the northside SE’s (not that there aren’t ANY, just not many). I’d just like to know how many kids in all the tiers scored above 750. Seems like that number would be a general range to gauge the “competition”. And it would be also interesting to see how many scored above 825.
RL Julia | March 30, 2011 at 10:55 am
CPSObsessed @ 192. I agree totally. However, even given the likelihood of slim margins (especially in tiers 3 and 4) etc… how is it that everyone I seem to know with a high school aged kid who applied, managed to get into an SEHS or some equally challenging program? Even on this board there were many more people who got acceptances than an outright rejection and no offer from anywhere. Provided, this is antedotal in nature and I don’t know 100’s of middle schoolers /high school students but it does seem that everyone lands somewhere.
It seems to me that despite what people want or feel they deserve it sort of breaks out like this:
Kid A – goes into the select exam with a perfect or practically perfect score. Gets into first or second choice SE
Kid B – goes into the select exam with a B or one weird ISAT score. Parents apply to SEHS but also to Lincoln Park, Von Steuben, Ogden etc… and a couple of parochial schools. Some kids get into the SEHS some end up at one of the other choices.
I would suspect that every kid in a tier 3/4 family or who goes to an RGC, Magnet, IB program applies to an SEHS or other test in program regardless of their grades – provided that they are eligible. Parents however are usually pretty savvy in gauging their kid’s potential to get into the SE’s and hedge their bets other places. What I would love to see is how many kids are interested in which schools – in that from what I can tell 9,000 of the 11-13,000 applicants listed Payton (or Northside) as schools #1 and #2 and probably only 6,000 listed Westinghouse at all.
The kids I really feel for in this whole equation are they kids who are A/ B students in 7th grade and/or bombed some part of the ISATs. I’d imagine that they could all handle the workload/intensity at an SE but have a harder time securing a spot. These seem to be the kids who CPS doesn’t serve well.
cpsobsessed | March 30, 2011 at 11:18 am
@197: RL Julia:
I can’t figure out whether most kids get in somewhere like and SE/IB/etc.
This mom I ran into from Bell made it sound like a lot of neighborhood parents there had gotten pretty stuck. Unlike the readers of this blog (who probably skew a bit more “obsessive” than a typical parent) she made it sound like many had not gone for backups. Maybe just assumed Lane Tech was an “in” and then were suprised to realize it’s not for Tier 3-4 kids? Or maybe they didn’t get into SEs and she didn’t inquire about other good options they might have.
I envy the kids in the Lincoln Park area who have a back up that parents seem to feel comfortable with. Ideally that can expand to other neighborhood high schools.
cpsobsessed | March 30, 2011 at 11:22 am
@194: on proving one’s socioeconomic ranking, I just don’t think CPS has the resources to process 13,000 applicant’s info. Plus, it’s ripe for lying. If a kid has 2 working parents, it’s so easy for just one of them to turn in the W2, not both, etc. Also, socio-economics is defined by more than just income.
I’m more convinced that these Tiers aren’t working, not only because people are so mixed within census tract but looking at the cutoff scores by Tier for HS and AC schools, it didn’t really plot out coherently. I’m really surprised to learn that NYC just uses pure rank to let kids in. On the other hand, they probably have a lot more schools than we do. I know they have a ton more gifted spots that CPS does.
mom2 | March 30, 2011 at 11:33 am
@198 re Lincoln Park being a back up – I think it is a OK back up for some parents because it has both the IB program and a very large percentage of kids in their double honors program. When you have such a large percentage of kids at the “neighborhood” school in these programs, it attracts a lot more people. I don’t think it would be doing so well if it only had the small (but very highly regarded) IB program. (Just thinking about the future for Lakeview or Amundsen or places like that and what they would need to be acceptable choices).
... | March 30, 2011 at 11:48 am
we are not a Lincoln Park family but our kid attends little Lincoln and she had no intentions in applying to LPHS but the teachers and principal made all kids applied because of previous years having to deal with family who did not prepare well with plan B and/or C. thank goodness we did because although she did great in pre-IB, and ISATS, she didnt do so well in the entrance exam so now we are heading to LPHS. we are not an LP family but prepared ourselves with other options.
RL Julia | March 30, 2011 at 12:46 pm
Interesting about the Bell parents – however in all fairness, it did seem that until this year, Lane was easier to get into because of its size.
I wonder if what also might happen is that kids end up at a charter high school but no one feels like talking about it because its not a name school. There is always someone in the bottom half of the class and they have to go to high school somewhere and no matter what the ISAT scores are, if you kid is bringing home B and C’s you are probably pretty aware that the SEHS are not going to deliver regardless of your child’s innate ability. I do know a few families like this and their kids are the ones trying out for Von Steuben, Lincoln Double Honors but really checking out Admunsen IB and CICS Northtown as well.
Just as an aside and I should also post this on the Lane Tech AC discussion but does anyone besides me see the proposed curriculum for the Lane AC as an attempt to stop making people think of Lane as the fallback SEHS for the Northside?
showmedastats | March 30, 2011 at 12:56 pm
I dunno, @199, I’m imagining that the only additional data needed on the application would be the child’s parents’/guardians’ Social Security numbers and CPS could have all the income figures and property values it would need to better rank economic diversity, and if they’re processing 200 PD detailed applications per school…but I honestly don’t want to give the CPS any bright ideas.
From the census tract information, I’ve decided my favorite anomalous location. It’s the Tier 2 Tract 2816, which has a median income of $153,463, centered at Paulina and Monroe streets. But it’s Tier 2 apparently because it has extremely low percentiles in educational attainment (adults who finished high school, etc.) and in 2-parent families.
cps Mom | March 30, 2011 at 1:20 pm
CPS Obsessed has this right – there is a segment of kids that will have straight A’s and near perfect scores that will not even have to think of the process. They have an “excellent” chance and are the minority. The rest have a “slim” chance if in tier 4.
There are some schools – like Lincoln IB – that will award A’s for passing work that is 2 grade levels above. Kids will test high because they are learning at a higher level and a program like this will have high placement in SE. Other schools will not do this. Accelerated learning can carry a higher grading standard and result in B’s and C’s and an automatic plan B in the above scenario. As mentioned above, the entrance exam is not automatically a high score even after prep classes and studying.
People tend to talk about their successes, which is what we are hearing about here (thanks to all those coming forward with “war” stories). My old school with excellent programing and some very smart kids probably had about a 20% placement to SE (top 5) with a good percentage of that being tier 1-3. As @201 suggests, it is a bit jolting to assume that your high scoring child will have to go to the “back up plan”. Not necessarily “bad” but unexpected and disappointing.
@204. cps Mom | March 30, 2011 at 2:26 pm
“There are some schools – like Lincoln IB – that will award A’s for passing work that is 2 grade levels above” my kid attends Lincoln IB and they definitely dont give away A’s in the IB program. Also 99% of IB this year got into SE.
PD | March 30, 2011 at 2:32 pm
is anyone hearing any rumors about PD? how many applicants per school? anything?
cps Mom | March 30, 2011 at 3:01 pm
@205 – my statement was based upon reading that 99% of kids at LIB get into SE. I have no direct knowledge of that school. My question is then how do they get in with B’s? Perfect score with 2 B’s 850 might work for Lane I guess. No offense intended just trying to figure it out.
cpsobsessed | March 30, 2011 at 3:12 pm
@207: Was that on here that you read about the 99% of LIB kids getting into SE schools? I can’t find that post, but I thought it was qualified in some way like “99% of kids who were eligible to apply”. Maybe that still doesn’t asnwer the B questions, but I thought it didn’t actually say they ALL (or 99%) got in.
PD | March 30, 2011 at 3:19 pm
LIB. 100% qualified to test for SE. all the kids except for 1 that choose NOT to take the test
my kids goes there and also some kids in the regular program got into SE.
they dont get into, they got into SE. this is this year’s 8th grade class.
PD | March 30, 2011 at 3:20 pm
the kids with Bs ended at Lane which it is still SE
LIB mom of 3 | March 30, 2011 at 3:25 pm
I just received the list of Selective Enrollment High Schools (SEHS) that selected our grade 8 students. Here is the data I collected. Remember, this information is ONLY for the SEHS schools, not Lincoln Park HS:
a. There are 85 students in our grade 8 class. 62 qualified to take the SEHS exam and 23 did not qualify;
b. Therefore, 73% of the entire class qualified to take the SEHS exam;
c. 100% of the International Gifted (IG) students qualified to take the exam (33 students);
d. 57% of the non-IG students qualified to take the exam (30 students);
e. Of the 62 students that took to take the SEHS exam, 41 students were offered a SEHS seat;
f. Of the 32 IG students that qualified and took the SEHS exam (one student opted not to take the exam), 30 were offered a SEHS seat;
g. Of the 30 non-IG students that qualified and took the SEHS exam, 11 were offered a SEHS seat;
h. 27 students received their first choice, 8 received their 2nd choice, 2 received their 3rd choice, 4 received their 4th choice, 0 received their 5th choice, and 0 received their 6th choice;
i. 14 students were offered seats at Walter Payton College Prep;
j. 8 students were offered seats at Northside College Prep;
k. 7 students were offered seats at Whitney Young Magnet HS;
l. 10 students were offered seats at Lane Tech College Prep;
m. 1 student was offered a seat at Jones College Prep;
n. 1 student was offered a seat at Lindblom College Prep.
showmedastats | March 30, 2011 at 3:29 pm
Cps Mom, I’m a Lincoln IG parent as well (and b.t.w., not offended, and I understand your inference) but I can attest that the A’s don’t come easily. In 7th grade, they are having to get 90% or more correct on tests from the same Biology book I see LPHS kids carrying around and in 8th grade, from an Algebra book that my sharp-eyed daughter saw the kids carrying around in the high school on “Glee” (and they’re all, like, 20?.)
That’s pretty objective criteria.
The large number getting into Payton/NS (and the other SEs) from there surprised me, too, but they’re obviously doing something right. Many seem to be from Tier 4, but note that since it’s not a neighborhood school (the IG part, anyway) a few could have been buoyed by lower Tier #s. And they certainly don’t (intentionally) teach to the test – as far as I can tell it was never mentioned during the Fall and Winter.
LIB mom of 3 | March 30, 2011 at 3:32 pm
also a few of our kids at LIB decided to turn down the SE acceptance for Loyola, Iggy and Latin.
LIB mom of 3 | March 30, 2011 at 3:34 pm
we went to WY open house last year and my kid noticed that the freshman were using the same book as they were in 7th grade!
cps Mom | March 30, 2011 at 3:38 pm
OK – pretty phenomenal especially since I would also assume a high percentage of tier 4 kids. I hope that my statement is not construed as kids not earning the A’s – actually quite the contrary. They do accelerated work and should get A’s. But just to give an obvious example of a school that I know a bit about – WYAC. All advanced kids who get some B’s and C’s because they are just meeting standards that are set way up high. There are other schools like this. That was my point – not to be confusing. I saw LIB as an exception because of the 99% success rate in SE.
And, yes, Lane certainly qualifies as SE.
Still, I think SE is not a “slam dunk” with even very bright kids.
CpsReally? | March 30, 2011 at 3:53 pm
PD – What tier is your school in?
showmedastats | March 30, 2011 at 3:53 pm
Grading is just paradoxical. A million years ago when I went to school many teachers put the grades on a bell curve so that 10% each got As and Fs, 20% each got Bs and Ds, and 50% got Cs, even if the subject matter was years ahead of what our peers were doing. Others graded on a % of material basis, and that could mean anything from a class where nobody got As or everybody got As – depending on how hard the material was. I assume most of the grading going on CPS now is on a % of material basis, and the teachers nudge (or are nudged) the material a bit so that most are getting As and Bs. But your WYAC story makes me wonder if they’re liberated from grade inflation pressures because they assume that cohort is just staying at WY for High School?
In any case, grades really need to be removed from the point system. They are too easily tainted and clearly not uniform.
CpsReally? | March 30, 2011 at 3:54 pm
PD – I’m asking because local kids at IB school with A’s & B’s were offered nothing.
showmedastats | March 30, 2011 at 3:54 pm
… or 40% got Cs. In case anyone out there is checking my math!
cps Mom | March 30, 2011 at 4:00 pm
@217 – Thank you! agree, agree and agree. And yes, WY is liberated because they want to retain their AC students.
LIB mom of 3 | March 30, 2011 at 4:01 pm
which school? at Lincoln IB the kids are from mostly tier 2,3 and4.
LIB mom of 3 | March 30, 2011 at 4:03 pm
i thought the only pre IB pragrams were at Lincoln and Ogden. which school are you talking about?
mom2 | March 30, 2011 at 4:13 pm
@217 – While I agree that grades can be manipulated, I don’t find that to be the case that teachers actually do manipulate them to give more A’s in 7th grade. Almost on the contrary – they really want those A’s to be earned and it is pretty awful for the students.
BUT, I do not agree that grades or at least percentages of school work, should not be counted for SE points. Some students do not test well. They may do wonderful school work, but when it comes to sitting down and doing a lengthy test and all the pressure that goes along with it, they just crumble. That is not an indicator of the ability for success or failure in SE high schools or even college. Having grades be part of the equation is critical for those students and it should never be taken away. It just has to be uniform among all schools or as much as it can be (such as one grading scale for all CPS).
if you are a parent of a 7th grader | March 30, 2011 at 4:21 pm
I highly suggest to follow the kids grades trhough the portal. i wish i had that last year. i’ve been following my kids grades this year and i get a txt msg on my phone when his grades drop below 90. i wish i had this tool last year when he was in 7th grade. we could have avoided those Bs!!!!
deja vu | March 30, 2011 at 4:34 pm
Here we go again.
Word is that panic is setting in at CPS over the SEHS racial statistics. Specifically (and exclusively) the number of African American students earning seats is down from last year’s number. Political factions, aldermen & special interest groups are gearing up to force CPS to set aside additional seats for AA students – as was done last year.
Wonder if this means that the number of rank seats will again be cut to accommodate the Blue Ribbon Commission goal of raising AA enrollment at SEHS.
From the BRC Final Report 9/22/10:
“Looking at the data, the BRC was most concerned about the decline in African American acceptances in the 2010‐2011 admission cycle…Of all scenarios examined, three things seemed to increase the African American population. They include removing the language variable from the SES formula, increasing the tier percentage, and reducing cut scores (independently or in concert.)”
Why does CPS even bother with the cruel charade of collecting students’ grades,ISAT scores and SEHS entrance exam results if they are just going to supplant their own admissions model with political, after-the-fact set asides?
RL Julia | March 30, 2011 at 4:39 pm
220 – While I agree with doing away with the grade inflation – I can’t say I like the idea that if you go to WY for the AC you most likely won’t have the grades from 7th grade to allow you to transfer to another school if you desire. I see that Lane seems to be setting its AC up the same way.
Showmedastats | March 30, 2011 at 5:01 pm
Deja, seriously? It seems mathematically impossible given that they lowered the rank. Are there suddenly more A A living in tier 4?
cps Mom | March 30, 2011 at 5:03 pm
@223 – some schools are definitely more lenient with the A’s in 7th grade – helps the kid and helps the school reputation a win/win. This part of the SE points can and is easily manipulated.
@225 – Wow. Didn’t really work out well last year either. Why don’t we just blow by all protocols and select the desired student population. I don’t see any reporting or transparency to this process at all. Tiers aren’t working either and will only get worse as people try to work the system.
@226 – I agree with you. They run the program as a 6 year plan. A fact that is made clear from the start.
Showmedastats | March 30, 2011 at 5:12 pm
Not to mention just how explicitly they “tweak” the formulas to accomplish what the supreme court ruLed unconstitutional.
deja vu | March 30, 2011 at 5:27 pm
Unknown. Got the scoop from a CPS HS principal.
Last year’s stats reflected a significant (+5%) increase in Hispanic students earning SEHS seats, while the numbers of African American (-2%), Asian (-3%) and white (-2%) students earning seats decreased. Maybe they had similar results this year?
cps Mom | March 30, 2011 at 7:13 pm
@230 also consider that the stats you have reflect NCLB adds. Without altering the outcome (as CPS did last year) this years stats may actually be the same. If true, this tells me that tiers are capturing (or not capturing in the case of upper tiers) many “misclassified” families or maybe more Latinos (shows increase?). It will be interesting to see how CPS responds to the pressure. Have they released any data? How do these political groups know the stats? Is there any indication that CPS will respond similar to last year?
TiredOfIt | March 30, 2011 at 7:32 pm
Sure hope Rahm can fix this system. It’s broken in many ways. What are we teaching our kids ? A’s & B’s are great. My kid does not need teacher manipulated A’s to get into HS. We are headed to private HS — not soon enough. Such BS
deja vu | March 30, 2011 at 8:19 pm
The political groups know the stats because they are members of the BRC. They are also quite well-represented on Rahm’s education transition team.
mom2 | March 30, 2011 at 10:36 pm
@deja vu – Not sure we want to get into this again.
Each time I hear about groups being unhappy with racial results, I just cringe. The supreme court has spoken and therefore they are not supposed to be trying to get a racial balance. They are trying to get a socioeconomic balance so that those that are in some way disadvantaged (based on things other than race) are given an extra shot/added help at getting into the SE schools. They should be looking at and publishing that data as far as whether they achieved their goals. Why isn’t that data published?
When they say that the tiers aren’t working to get racial balance, they are basically admitting that they are trying to get around the law. How can they say that out loud and get away with that?
Gayfair Dad | March 31, 2011 at 12:03 am
WPCP 42% Caucasion.
WPCP 26% from private schools.
Gayfair Dad | March 31, 2011 at 12:05 am
@224 the text messaging alert has been available for at least three years.
Gayfair Dad | March 31, 2011 at 12:07 am
@224, also, some stellar teachers are not capable of keeping up with the portal. What a country.
Gayfair Dad | March 31, 2011 at 12:09 am
“BRC Final Report 9/22/10”: Based upon bogus questionably illegal meetings.
cps Mom | March 31, 2011 at 8:27 am
@234 from what I’ve read in the community meetings and various reports, some feel that CPS has the right to diversify by race but is only choosing not to do so to avoid costly law suits. Tiers are all about race, make no mistake about it. If this were about income there would be other ways to do it. This is another highly questionable area. I think it should be removed altogether from the process because it is unfair in many ways.
if you are a parent of a 7th grader | March 31, 2011 at 8:41 am
@237. Gayfair Dad
yes, i know the portal has been around and that some teachers dont keep up with it, yes! thank you! my kid is currently in 8th, 3yr ago i didnt think this whole process would get this crazy. it’s a big joke! but THANK YOU for letting me know that the txt msg has been around for 3 years. wow!
RL Julia | March 31, 2011 at 4:28 pm
@228 cps mom –
kinda takes Lane off the table as an AC for my daughter (unless she decides she is willing to forego making a HS choice) but very clever on Lane’s part.
Sounds as if the AC is almost going to be MORE competitve to get into over the SEHS part (although maybe not in a year or two). Interesting.
On the other hand, she did want to know if she went to Lane for 7th grade if she’d be able to graduate a year earlier. Did they talk about that at all?
What do you think? Not exactly a traditional AC but on the other hand, Taft doesn’t retain their best kids now do they – Lane is using their AC to get the cream of the crop and keep them there.
RL Julia | March 31, 2011 at 4:45 pm
addendum – this of course is provided she can actually get in in the first place.
cps Mom | March 31, 2011 at 5:31 pm
RL Julia – totally see your point. I assume that once they give a student the “HS experience” they would not want them to go to another school. According to this years numbers, any applicant regardless of tier could get into Lane minimally with scores in the 800’s. Presumably a student qualifying for an AC would be able to get that. I know I don’t have to tell you to have other plan B programs lined up. With no way of knowing how rules and regs may change, you almost have to go with your gut. I don’t see reason to get into an AC in a panic just to have a “guarantee”. You have to be on board with the whole program and expect a 6 year plan.
I have not heard about early graduation. I think they expect more accelerated classes and AP courses. I believe realistically once AC kids hit high school certain subjects are accelerated and others are honors level. They’ll probably add special science classes that the regular HS track kids would not be able to attain in the typical college prep track.
RL Julia | April 1, 2011 at 10:56 am
On the other hand, all the (very few) parents I know who were interested in having their 6th grader apply for Lane were doing so largely because they feel that at this point, Lane was going to be the best SEHS their kid would most likely be able to compete for – so why not get try and get their kid in for 7th grade and avoid the rush and stress of doing the full blown admission. Now, I don’t think any of these parents went to the open house but given what the curriculum looks like, it seems like Lane is looking to attract the higher scoring AC candidate than the one they accept for HS.
Basically, I guess I think many people sort of assumed (always a bad idea, I know) that Lane opening an AC meant that their kid could get into Lane early but that it was going to be a continuation of the accelerated middle school curriculum – not something that was unique (or for that part, rigorous).
So then the question becomes – is the Lane AC really providing another needed option for middle schoolers or is it competing to secure high scoring kids who might otherwise go to Northside or Payton two years earlier? Sorry to be so cynical here.
cpsobsessed | April 1, 2011 at 11:01 am
I agree, RL Julia, it does seem incongruous. I don’t know if it’s “cynical” to think that Lane wants to increase their reputation or standards. Maybe because I work in marketing?
In theory, why shouldn’t a principal try to improve their school’s image/students/etc. rather than accept being the last choice in many cases? One could admire a principal who strives for improvement.
On the other hand, it kind of disrupts the balance/landscape of CPS high schools as we’ve gotten used to it. I think that is a bit of frustration I feel with CPS – that there doesn’t seem to be a bigger strategic plan from above.
deja vu, Gayfair Dad | April 1, 2011 at 12:42 pm
Why aren’t Chicago news reporters on this story?
Re Stats: Am I understanding this right? Last year Hispanics were up 5%, and this year they are up another 4%?
Last year AA were down 4% and this year they are down another 2%?
Whites went down 2% last year? They had to drop lower this year.
Joyce Kenner and other principals made a trek to talk with Mazany about this months back. They will present him with their recommendations in May. What will happen then?
RL Julia | April 1, 2011 at 1:56 pm
245 – I am with you. I think its a great thing for Lane- and certainly they deserve to improve their image etc… but this blog often talks about the lack of options- especially for the bright kid who (gasp) gets a few B’s in 7th grade and/or bombs a test etc… and hence is more or less kicked out of the SEHS pool in so far as Northside, Payton, Jones and Whitney Young are pretty much concerned.
So, on the one hand, I applaud Lane for their AC program – it sounds great and I think it will do a lot to make Lane the #1 choice for these top scoring kids who would otherwise go to the aforementioned schools.
But on the other hand, I am disappointed because Lane has developed a program that doesn’t create more high scoring kids or necessarily support the kids who are in that gray area- they are just trying to cherry pick the kids who have already achieved a little earlier than 9th grade.
Strategically speaking, I have to say that the first thing I thought when I looked at the curriculum was – this is a curriculum that is only going to appeal to a certain type of (already high achieving) kid and in all honesty, I don’t think that the impressively high academic expectations for the 7th grade class can be managed by your average student. The second thing I thought was – I can’t think of a kid who could complete that curriculum in 7th grade with all A’s (although I’m sure there some who could) – which basically means, that the kid going to the Lane AC needs to be o.k. with the idea of staying there and not transferring to another school. Narrows the pool some more. Overall, just another example of shortsighted systemic planning on CPS’s part. So the AC is great for Lane – but in the end is it great for CPS? The northside? For sixth graders?
mom2 | April 1, 2011 at 2:06 pm
@246 – what will happen then is that they will try to tweak the system again to favor more acceptance results from typically AA schools because the idea that fairness is based on socioeconomic factors is not really what they think. They are still trying to get around the supreme court ruling. (By the way, they won’t tweak it to benefit Whites, just watch).
It is obvious why they are getting the results that they are getting currently since they lowered or removed the cut off scores, they are losing the Whites that used to benefit from those spaces. They are using tiers based on socioeconomic factors and both Hispanics and AA benefit from this (lower tiers), but Hispanics have currently found a way to do better in school work/testing at this point. At least I think it can be explained this way.
mom2 | April 1, 2011 at 2:12 pm
RL Julia – I agree that CPS urgently needs to solve the issue of having a great place for the college bound and very ready “B” student. It is a horrible situation right now. But, I disagree that Lane has been that answer recently. I know many 2 A’s and 2 B’s students that tried to get into Lane over the last few years and did not get accepted. They have ended up at Lincoln Park or private schools. Lane, at least for tier 3 and 4, hasn’t been the safety net school for a while now (and that is for students that only received 2 B’s).
cps Mom | April 1, 2011 at 2:46 pm
RL Julia – yes…on everything. Although I’m not necessarily convinced that it is shortsightedness on the part of CPS – seems to me that they were holding out. The parents along with the principal pushed for this (13,000 signatures on a petition for 180 spaces?). I read in the Lane AC post that the reduction in 9th grade spaces will be greater than 90 (120 or 180? don’t feel like looking for it). The parents hoping to get into Lane early may be effected when it comes to 9th grade. Now that it’s done, no one will be the wiser when it comes to future HS admissions. It really comes down to which group do we accommodate A/B 9th graders or AAA 7th and 8th graders (who don’t necessarily want or need to secure a spot). This is a high school after all.
The disappointment that I have about CPS is that if there is a “grand plan” now would be a good time to come forward with it. I think most parents would feel perfectly content with AC’s in high schools (bring em on!) if there were more SE high school opportunities. I’m reading about under-representation of race and tier 4 kids under the gun to perform well beyond grade level. CPS doesn’t seem to acknowledge all these groups that qualify for SE under requirements set forth by CPS.
@246 – are these % for SE schools overall? It seems to me that location and the mere fact that a high performing school will attract the brightest applicants will play a part in the racial demographic of a particular school.
deja vu | April 1, 2011 at 3:30 pm
CPS stats reflect AA admission to SEHS was down 2% last year, the same as the decrease in white enrollment.
Westinghouse: 76.8% AA, 1.8% white.
What little Chicago has left in the way of local journalism has assiduously avoided these stories. My bet is they don’t want to rattle the mayor’s cage. After all, the mayor utterly ignored the IG report calling for WY Principal Kenner’s lifetime ban from “principal picks” because of the corruption at WY. Similarly ignored was the recent story of WY’s basketball team being permitted to participate in the state tourney after they were banned from same for recruiting violations.
No one wants to address the race issue head on, lest they be labeled racists for even questioning the CPS system that openly violates Supreme Court decisions banning the use of race in public school admissions.
It's really too bad | April 1, 2011 at 5:37 pm
about the freefall that journalism in Chicago has suffered. Let’s politicians get away with anything, unless ordinary people are willing to protest.
Mayfair Dad | April 1, 2011 at 5:49 pm
@ 251 – my rants about the same subject are all over this board so I won’t repeat them here. Tier system = social engineering fueled by liberal white guilt = reverse discrimination.
Here’s a suggestion for the Mayor-elect:
Make admissions to Northside College Prep 100% merit-based, no consideration of tier, race, socio-economic mumbo jumbo. Smartest kids win. Best of the best. Period.
Then sit back and watch what happens.
cps Mom | April 1, 2011 at 7:12 pm
@253 – I would love to see that – and just to be fair to the south side Payton too. I wonder if you would possibly even get a better racial mix than what you see now under the tier system.
Like others have said | April 2, 2011 at 9:34 am
The 7th grade classes at the AC centers are freshman level classes and a B is likely for even the top students, knocking them out of the running for NSCP, WY, WP, or Jones. But it comes at a cost — it cuts the numbers of high school students.
Does it look like more social engineering, MayFair Dad? The Lane AC center will funnel non-minorities away from those schools?
Google Edweek | April 2, 2011 at 10:16 am
I subscribe to EdWeek in order to keep up with education issues nationally and to learn what our Sec’y of Ed Arne Duncan is up to in DC. Obviously his influence is still very strong here at CPS.
So, I’ve included this piece for you to follow. I think it will could important ramifications to sehs admissions.
EdWeek story … Elementary and Secondary Education Act
Google Edweek | April 2, 2011 at 10:19 am
When you get to EdWeek, the story headline begins:
Advocates Fear Rewrite of ESEA Law
bagg | April 2, 2011 at 12:34 pm
FYI, recent rumor that Rahm’s son will be attending Latin or Parker. Makes sense since many of his advisory team are connected to Parker.
Gayfair Dad | April 3, 2011 at 12:30 am
Good idea -- FOIA | April 3, 2011 at 8:45 am
I guess, GF Dad, that you are pointing us to the way to find out information regarding breakdown of seats at sehs?
Gayfair Dad | April 3, 2011 at 8:19 pm
Someone, eventually, will want to know the real deal.
Dr.Mom | April 4, 2011 at 7:59 am
I guess I’m trying to figure out what’s wrong with a public school being as racially and economically diverse as the city it’s located in? I know it’s hard and seems unfair when your kid doesn’t get in, but come on. We don’t live in a world that is either fair or balanced. Public schools in certain areas of the city are a joke, and aren’t getting any better. Do smart kids from these schools deserve any less of an education than your kid? Stop whining and making poor brown kids the enemy. Your kids are listening even if you think they aren’t. Spend your energy advocating to make a quality public education the rule, instead of the exception.
@ Dr. Mom | April 4, 2011 at 8:56 am
You may honestly feel that way people here are making poor, brown kids the enemy. That would be awful. But I haven’t read that here.
I read parents grumbling about a secretive, system of sehs admissions that has been revised a couple of times by a panel of politicians and their politically well-connected colleagues.
The panel has set out to reduce the number of whites in the system to below what it had been when CPS operated under the federal consent decree.
Now how does that make sense? If CPS had considered the percentage of whites in the sehs schools (23%) appropriate when the intent was to desegregate schools. So how is it all right to cut that percentage year after year, once the federal consent decree is lifted?
You imply that everyone is racist who is tired of the corrupt and opaque methods that CPS typically employs.
You are right that there are many public schools that are a joke and are not getting better. Why can’t CPS address that issue? In some important ways it seems that they have, by opening Brooks, Lindblom, King, etc.
@ Dr. Mom | April 4, 2011 at 9:25 am
You are probably busy, but I wanted to bring to your attention somthing from another thread on this blog you might want to read. The writer knows a lot about CPS schools on the south side of the city. There seem to be a number of high-performing and well integrated schools, giving us all reason to be more positive.
Mark Sheridan Magnet School in Chinatown/Bridgeport area on the southside.the school is 35% White, 26% Asian American and the remainder is Latino & African American students. About 500 students are enrolled in the school-a good size school with 3 science labs. I live in the Beverly area and it is a about a 25-30 min drive. I reallly loved this school the principal, teachers and parents are truly amazing. Parental volunteer is really high! Their test scores are in the 90% percentile (no testing required). The racial makeup is Caucasian, African American, Asian American and latin American. The school is really wonderful. The school focuses on Math & Adv. Science. In addition, most of the students are accepted to SE high schools. You can visit the school website, take a tour and read the reviews on greatschools.org. I don’t think you would be disappointed. http://sheridan.cps.k12.il.us/
South Loop School is also an amazing school with a rich diversity of students such as: India, Pakistanians, Asian, Caucasians, Biracial/Multi-racial,African American, Latino and Asian students. It is located in the South Loop area of course. The school offers a gifted K-8 program (test based), a neighborhood component and a magnet Fine Arts component. For the magnet component you will need to submit an application and admission is determned through lottery. Their test scores are in the 90% percentile also and they offer a summer day camp.
Andrew Jackson Language Academy is in the West Loop. The school is 32% White, 30% Asian,. and the remainder African Amer/Latino Amer/Biracial,Greek & India. This is a very diverse schoolThe school is located in the UIC Medical District. This school is too far from the southside. About a 35 minute drive. They are a very diverse school and offer: Spanish, Madarin,Japanese, Italian and French. This a magnet K-8 school and admission is detremined through lottery. You must submit an application.
Lenart School is located in the Chatham neighborhood and is a gifted school . Your child must test to get into this school. The school has a diverse population- 26% White, 61% African American and the remainder make-up is made up of Asian and Latino students. The school is small and safe about 290 students. Bus service is provided to all students. Lenart test scores are in the 100% percentile! The school offers French (K-8) violin and ballet/dance to its students along w/ a rigorous course of study. This school is about a 25 min drive from my southwest side home in Beverly.
Murray Language Academy is a diverse school as well. The school now goes from k-8 grades. 20% White, 65% African American and the remainder is Asian American students. It is located in Hyde Park and has a beautiful art studio. The school offers: Spanish, Japanese & French. Murray aslo offers an etensive after school program which is good for working parents (3pm-6pm)There is no testing required but you must submit an application for admission and lottery will determine the admission.
Ray is a diverse school located in Hyde Park. 20.5% white, 5Now as for some neighborhood schools in Beverly and Mt Greenwood, depending on which neighborhoods you live in you can attend Mt Greenwood Elem, Sutherland, Clissold and Cassell. Sutherland & Clissold (both in Beverly) is 50% White population and 50% African American. Both schools are in the 85-89%percentile on the ISAT.
Mt. Greenwood elem school the racial breakdown is 80% WHITE and 14 % Hispanic. This is a neighborhood school so there is no admission criteria and if you reside int the area you can attend. The school has a 95% percentile on the ISAT test scores.
Cassell is located in Mt. Greenwood neighborhood but it is an magnet fine arts school. You must submit an application to attend and admission will be determined through lottery. The racial make-up at this school is 80% White and 15% African American and the remainder are Hispanic. This is a small school with about 330 students. You must submit an application to the magnet program. The school also has an neighborhod component. Their test scores are in the 85%percentile on the ISAT.0% African American and the remainder is Asian American. Right behind the University of Chicago. It is a magnet school that goes from K-6gr only. No testing required but you must submit an application for admission and lottery will detremine who gets in.
Another two other options are Skinner North & West are classical schools you must test to get into both schools. Skinner North is currently taking K-4graders (it will eventually go up to 8th). Skinner Classical West is a K-8 test based school. Both schools work one grade above regular grade level. Skinner West has a new building. Skinner West also has a tech/fine arts magnet program for K-2 graders now and you must submit an application to enroll. admission is determined through lottery for this program. Skinner West also has a tuition based preschool program. Both schools are racially divers with test scores in the 90% percentile. And both schools are located in the West Loop area. Both schools are about a 40 min drive from my southwest side Beverly home.
If you are looking for a academic center, Kenwood is a diverse AC located in the Hyde Park area across the street from University of Chicago. Kenwood AC’s test scores are in the 95%-100% percentile. The racial make-up at Kenwood is White, African American and Asian American. You must test to enter the Kenwood AC.
As for a high school, Chicago High School for Agricultural Sciences (CHSAS) is a Magnet 9-12 grade school located in Mt. Greenwood area and you must submit an application. Admission is based on lottery. The racial make-up is 32% White, 50% African American and the remainder Latino students.
Aside from CHSAS, some students that live on the Southwest side usually enroll in Catholic High Schools, MPA/U of Lab High School, Selective Enrollment High Schools or CHSAS.
I hope this helps you and your family. I am not sure where you reside on the southwest side so I provided you with as much info as possible. I also wasn’t sure if you wanted a gifted, classical, magnet school, so I provided you with as many options as I could think of. I used to work for CPS so I know a bit about their schools. I will return back to CPS later this year once my leave is up. Let me know if you have anymore questions.
Mayfair Dad | April 4, 2011 at 12:07 pm
@ Dr. Mom:
Nothing is wrong with diversity. It is a noble goal. We all dream of living in a world where a person is judged not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
In keeping with that goal, the Supreme Court of the United States has determined that using “brown” as a criteria for preferential admissions into a public school is unlawful.
I feel empathy for poor brown children because they are children and thus blameless for the circumstances of their birth or the foolish life choices of their parents. I yearn to live in a society that treasures the young as our future and provides a first-rate education to every child as a birthright of citizenship, regardless of race. It should be our highest national priority. Sadly it is not.
But as white parents trapped in the dysfunctional CPS magnet & selective enrollment derby fighting for what is best for our melanin deprived children, do not be so quick to label us racists.
When the admissions policy blatantly uses “white” as a criteria to limit the number of seats at a given school, is this not racist? Disguise it with all the tier mumbo jumbo you want, the fact remains CPS is employing a strategy to control the number of white students attending SE high schools in an effort to increase the number of minority students at these institutions.
You may argue this approach to leveling the educational playing field is in the best interest of society, and you are probably right. Educate them now or incarcerate them later – harsh but true. Public education is the single most effective weapon we have against generational poverty.
But I would argue that eliminating skin color considerations completely brings us closer to our utopian goal of a color-blind society, to the benefit of everyone.
IB&RGC Mom | April 4, 2011 at 12:33 pm
RL Julia and others – thanks for the posts on the Lane AC. Of course offers haven’t gone out yet, but when they do (if my daughter is to get in) I am going to have her think long and hard about what she wants to do. I have told her already that if she gets and accepts Lane it will be for the 6 years. She is that bright student who occasionally gets B’s and we are in tier 4 so I think I have been panicking looking at the cut off scores for the SEHS’s! We haven’t gone to all the open houses or seen all of the schools so while I like the 6 year program I don’t want her to be forced into deciding what high school she wants at this point especially because she hasn’t seen them all. Right now I am starting to think she will be better staying at Taft for the 2 years and then deciding what high school she wants to try for. Either way she is going to have to be very focused in 7th grade, and instead of coasting through without studying too hard she will have to develop some new study habits.
Again, I really appreciate the posts because it makes me think hard about what truly is the best decision for her.
Dr. Mom | April 4, 2011 at 12:46 pm
I’m pretty sure that I didn’t imply anyone was racist. If you read it that way, then its coming from you, not me. And the brown and poor deal is not a feeling that I’m getting, it’s what’s been repeated over and over in these posts. My first issue is that many of these posts clump poor and brown together, and white and middle class together, as if either pairing is synonymous which is problematic on more levels than I am willing to go into. I have problems with the system as well, but increasing the diversity among these schools is not one of them. If My son who is brown and not Tier 1 (that does happen every now and then) did not get in to a SE high school, so how is race a factor for him? I understand the correlation because of the segregation of many neighborhoods, but there are also many Chicago neighborhoods that are not as homogeneous as we want to imagine, and it does none of us any good to keep focusing on race. Personally I think the only “fair” admission process for selective enrollment schools should be stanine 5 lotteries, just like the magnet schools.FYI, just because the supreme court says it, doesn’t mean it’s true. BTW, My son did get into Ogden. We are both really excited by the lack of homogeneity amongst the students across all “categories”.
RL Julia | April 4, 2011 at 1:14 pm
Mayfair Dad – I think I understand what you are getting and I actually agree with you …. but do over (and please accept my apologies if I am being too sensitive or harsh to you)!!!
You feel empathy for poor brown children?? I don’t know where to even begin with that (no doubt heartfelt) statement – it just doesn’t read well -or do your ideas the justice they deserve.
Mayfair Dad | April 4, 2011 at 2:04 pm
I was responding to a direct quote from Dr. Mom (#262), the quote reads: “Stop whining and making poor brown kids the enemy.” To me, its pretty clear what is being implied.
After re-reading, I can see where my choice of words sounds overly harsh, particularly if the reader is unaware of the earlier post I am referencing. No offense was intended.
Dr. Mom and I agree on many things, particularly the desire to de-emphasize race in the SE admissions process. All children deserve to receive a great public education in Chicago.
Ogden was a great choice for my son. I sincerely Dr. Mom and her son enjoy their experience there as much as we did.
cps Mom | April 4, 2011 at 2:31 pm
One thing that I have been trying to make a point of, echoed by Dr. Mom, is that not all African American kids are in tier 1. As such, they are subject to the same academic disadvantage associated with tiers 3 and 4 when it comes to selective enrollment.
Setting race aside, selective enrollment and the IB programs are not supposed to be about “charity” – it’s about academics. Your point about a lottery system for all above stanine 5 is certainly valid and something I think should be considered. But I would also put forward the need for certain schools and programs that accommodate the high performers in the 9th stanine that are clearly academically differentiated from stanine 5.
Now, what about all those kids below stanine 5? Please don’t use words like “enemy” to describe.
mom2 | April 4, 2011 at 3:05 pm
For those of you concerned that people that post here seem to think that all AA kids live in tier 1, you are greatly mistaken. The people that are causing all these conversations that equate tier 1 with AA (or “brown”) are the people at CPS. They created this tier system for what some believe is to work around the supreme court ruling of not being able to use race to pick students for certain schools. They are the ones that believe that you can get schools more racially balanced by getting more kids from lower tiers into schools located in the higher tiers, etc. They are the ones that keep wanting to tweak the tier system to achieve more racial balance. It is quite clear that this new tier system makes it much more difficult for an AA child living in tier 3 or 4 to get into some of the SE schools where it used to be much easier because of their race.
Mayfair Dad | April 4, 2011 at 3:28 pm
Admissions process for Specialized High Schools in New York City. This process has been in place since September 2003.
• The process is designed to match students based on their SHSAT (Specialized High School Admissions Test) scores and how they ranked the Specialized High Schools. The SHSAT score is based on the number of correct answers marked – there is no penalty for wrong answers.
• The Specialized High Schools Admissions Test (SHSAT) assesses knowledge and skills. These skills consist of the ability to comprehend English prose, to think through a verbal problem in order to reach a reasoned conclusion based on given information, and the ability to use problem-solving skills in mathematics. The test measures knowledge and skills you have gained over the years. Keeping up with your schoolwork throughout the year is the best possible preparation.
• Acceptance to a Specialized High School is based first on the student’s test score, then on the priority order in which thestudent placed the Specialized High Schools and on seat availability.
• All scores of the students taking the test are ranked from highest score to lowest score. The student with the highest score is placed in his/her first choice (highest prioritized school).
• Starting from the highest score on down, each student, in turn, is placed in his/her highest prioritized school in which seats are still available. Therefore, if all the seats in the student’s first-choice school have been offered to students who scored higher, he/she is placed in his/her second-choice school if seats are available. If all the seats in his/her second-choice school been given to students who scored higher, the student is offered a seat in his/her third-choice school if there are still seats available, and so on. This process continues until there are no seats available in any of the eight Specialized High Schools.
• From year to year, the number of offers and projected seats for each Specialized High School may be subject to an increase or decrease based on school enrollment.
Anonymous | April 4, 2011 at 4:28 pm
Has anyone recieved second round letters??? Just curious we applied for PD at Walter Payton College Pre!
cps Mom | April 4, 2011 at 4:36 pm
271 Totally agree – CPS is the one who maintains that by implementing and “tweeking” the tier system, we’ll achieve racial diversification.
Dr. Mom – I’m sure you realize that one tends to view their child’s outcome through the eyes of their own individual challenges. It’s all relative to the individual family.
It seems more like “luck” that some are benefiting from the tier system. Many are unhappy. I don’t think we’d hear as much complaining if the system was based upon 100% rank plus a percentage of exceptions. Well deserved “whining” can bring about change.
Anonymous | April 4, 2011 at 4:41 pm
Has anyone recieved second round letters??? Just curious we applied for PD at Walter Payton College Prep! How many people will they pickk??
275. Anonymous | April 4, 2011 at 4:43 pm
I believe there was no 2nd round letter and still no news on PD till 4/15 or later. we also applied for PD at Payton. Good luck to both of our kids!
275. Anonymous | April 4, 2011 at 4:44 pm
wait, before all these parents jump to correct me, i should say they were signs of only a few 2nd round letters at Jones.🙂
Alejandro | April 4, 2011 at 8:58 pm
when do AC second round letters come out?
IB&RGC Mom | April 4, 2011 at 9:43 pm
So I am curious, people applying for PD what are the circumstances that you are stating on the application on why they should select your child?
I looked at the application – I know a little obsessed since my daughters are in 6th and 2nd – and see only a few options to state your case.
NWS parent | April 5, 2011 at 2:14 pm
@Mayfair Dad. Touche! Not harsh but honest with only 9% Caucasion in CPS.
cpsobsessed | April 5, 2011 at 2:38 pm
@278 Alejandro, what was the deadline for the 1st round? April 1st. It usually takes them 1-2 weeks to mail the second round, I’d imagine.
If you don’t get into Taft for 2nd round (if there even is a 2nd round) I’m pretty sure you won’t get anything in the mail. However a spot could open up later and they’d call you.
Curious | April 5, 2011 at 3:34 pm
I was so excited,when I dropped off the PD paperwork. But the more,I think about it . We have no ties to any alderman or SEHS Principal’s. So it looks like LPHS Double Honor’s Program.
Anonymous | April 5, 2011 at 4:15 pm
same with us. no ties so heading to LPHS Double Honor’s Program.
very very sad. my kid DOES not want to go there at all. i feel bad but we have no other choices.
3rd round letter to SE | April 7, 2011 at 6:31 pm
SE letter arrived today to westinghouse. That was our 6th choice
Curious | April 14, 2011 at 7:38 pm
For those of us that applied for the Principle’s Descretion. The acceptance/denial letters go out tomorrow.
Life goes on | April 16, 2011 at 1:38 pm
Principals discretion notice arrived today,and got turned down to lane. It’s not the end of the world as my daughters high school life will go on at LPHS Double honors program.
Anonymous | April 16, 2011 at 5:27 pm
PD letter arrived today. No acceptance from Payton😦 Oh well! We decided not to go to Lane, and will be attending Loyola Academy this year! Go Ramblers!
Anonymous | April 18, 2011 at 5:38 pm
Anyone heard anything from PD? Where will your children/child be attending????
momof3boys | April 18, 2011 at 6:29 pm
my son got in at lane tech thru pd
nap | April 20, 2011 at 11:58 pm
Anyone have recent info on Von? Did not make it into the original lotto and live in Taft area. They are small. Are they closed out for freshman and the scholars program?
KIKI | April 22, 2011 at 1:44 pm
This whole HS selection thing is confusing. I live on the southeast side. LPHS was sending my daughter letters before we started applying and might have sent her their if it had not been so far away. Kenwood put her on the waiting list and Morgan Park which is in our zone did not accept her but she got accepted into Brooks. Go figure. I’ll take a selective enrollment school.
CC | November 21, 2012 at 9:58 pm
I wonder when ill get a letter from lane tech high school saying he can take the test its been to long *** is his name he apply to lane tech high school just want to know when he can take the enrollment test at lane tech
anon | November 22, 2012 at 9:42 am
Do you know that you need to apply so your student can take the test for Lane Tech?
cpsobsessed | November 22, 2012 at 9:57 am
@292: make sure you fill out an application. Info is here. If you haven’t done so already, you should apply for a PIN asap.
anon | November 22, 2012 at 10:04 am
Hi CC — Here is what I found out for you. Don’t worry. You have until December 14, 2012 to get the application in.
First, go to the CPS web site and start there.
Second, click on Apply, and it takes you to all the applications for all the different CPS schools.
There are other good high schools listed here. Many people apply to more than one school. You and your student could look over the list, and see what other schools might be interesting.
Third, get the right application. Lane Tech is a selective enrollment (S.E.) school, so you need this application form.
You can print it out, fill it out, and deliver it by hand to CPS, 125 S. Clark Street, to get a receipt.
Or you can apply online.
But I would not just mail it in, because CPS gets a lot of applications and has been known to misplace applications.
I hope this helps. If you have questions, you could take your applications to your elementary school teacher or assistant principal and ask them for help.
Or you can call downtown.
Best of luck.
HSObsessed | November 22, 2012 at 11:02 am
It’s very nice of all you to try helping out CC, but given that his/her name links to an educational product, the chances are pretty high that “CC” is a techie person in Asia who is paid to find websites that are at least tangentially related to the product and post fake comments in order to increase the number of clicks to the product’s website. I delete these fake comments on my own blog. Perhaps CC will return to prove me wrong.
anon | November 22, 2012 at 11:44 am
I clicked on CC.
It linked back to this — http://www.edu.com — a page on DeVry College.
I am aware there are pitfalls on the net, but most of us here do not click on names, do we? Correct me if I am wrong.
Even if we all do click on CC and then visit the DeVry web page, that would seem to be an odd way for DeVry to try to increase enrollment. But you may be right.
kenny | February 24, 2013 at 1:05 am
anyone knows…………what to choose between..Ogden international IB program or Von Steuben scholars?
jasmine perez | March 5, 2013 at 8:18 pm
Can you apply to the second round? And will they be looking at your 8th grade, grades?
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