CPS Obsessed

267 Comments Add your own

• 1. 5th Grade  |  January 16, 2012 at 6:02 pm

  Teachers have been told that 45 minutes must be lunch and recess (20 minutes lunch and 25 minutes recess) and 15 minutes allowed for passing between classes (i.e. time to get from P.E. to classroom). So that leaves exactly 30 minutes from the added 90 minutes for instruction. But wait… there must be 10 to 15 minutes for breakfast as well.
  So you only add 15 minutes to the instruction time. Is that time for enrichment?

• 2. Educate  |  January 16, 2012 at 6:35 pm

  I am in favor of the increase of the school day as a parent of elementary aged children and high-School child. I feel this is well needed. The educational system does need to be sure they are using this extra time on core subjects. Yes, recess is needed as well. I am concerned for the lower grades like k- 2nd but I feel the educators need to be creative in teaching their kids . I also feel kids should not still 4-5 hours of h.w & after-school programs should still be considered . As for the teachers they should get paid for the time they are working and complete grading the kids homework once the kids leave for the day … Most of us work 8- 9.50 hour days and we don’t get overtime , that is not including transportation.

• 3. Mom of boys  |  January 16, 2012 at 8:18 pm

  I would welcome a 30-minute increase to allow for recess (my kids are at one of the schools that has a 5 3/4 hr day and no recess), and up to a 60-minute increase to allow for an additional enrichment course as well – art, music, drama. But more time than that will be a huge imposition on our children being able to be children. They need time to decompress, to socialize with their neighborhood friends and extended family, to do a community/church/temple activity once a week, to play soccer etc. A well-rounded child becomes a well-rounded adult, who knows how to care for his/her entire self and not just the academic part.

  I also would prefer that extra time not be spent on core subjects – mostly because I can add to those by helping with homework (and I can’t foresee that the homework load will drop because you still have to conjugate those verbs and memorize those multiplication tables). But I can’t help as much with art/music/drama, and some of that is best done in a group, too. But where the extra $$ will come from is completely unknown.

• 4. HSObsessed  |  January 16, 2012 at 9:00 pm

  For K-8 students, I agree that the current 5.75 hours is inadequate, but I think 7.5 hours is too much, and I agree that 6.5 hours is a good compromise. My daughter’s school (Lincoln) is 6.5 hours already and they seem to fit all the core subjects in as well as PE, art, music, recess, French, etc. I agree with #3 Mom of boys about how important down time is at home, with friends, with other activities like sports or whatever.

• 5. chitownmama  |  January 16, 2012 at 9:06 pm

  (Apologies for the long comment.)
  There are many, many ways that the CPS educational system could be improved. Almost any option, however, will cost money—longer day, smaller class sizes, additional enrichment/specials classes, better (or even merely adequate!) facilities, more/improved equipment and supplies, universal pre-K and K, afterschool programs available for everyone who needs them, etc. etc. As a school district, we should be evaluating all these options and debating their relative merits, including their cost effectiveness. The mayor and the CEO of the district should be addressing why it is the longer day and not any of these other options that is the solution du jour.

  It doesn’t take a whole lot of cynicism to realize that they’ve settled on the longer day because it has the lowest price tag. And the reason this is so is because they are planning on doing it for free (or virtually free—$3M).

  This is, in fact, completely insane. I urge everyone with a child in CPS to read the following policy paper, “Taking Stock of the Fiscal Costs of Expanded Learning Time,” published by the Center for American Progress
  (http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2008/07/pdf/elt2.pdf) which outlines the issues of the costs of lengthening the school day very clearly.

  During their pro-longer day propaganda campaign, CPS has been touting the success of Massachusetts Expanded Learning Time Initiative (http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2007/01/massachusetts.html) on the previous incarnation of its longer day website (www.cps.edu/longerday) and the current one (cps.edu/fullday). (Interesting change in terminology, no?) It is worth noting that this lengthened day in MA was accompanied by an increase of funding of $1300 per pupil. That level of funding would mean an extra $1 million for my child’s elementary school alone. (Compare this to the $150K offered to Longer Day School Day Pioneer schools, and the $100K they are now offering.) Perhaps not surprisingly they are getting good results in that program! Is there really some untapped source of $520 million to do something similar for Chicago Public Schools?

  It is absolutely ridiculous and appalling how the mayor, the CEO, and the Board of Ed are trying to ramrod this change down our, i.e. students, parents, teachers, principals, and staff, throats without providing any additional funding to have it done correctly.

  My child is already spending a ridiculous amount of time in kindergarten on reading and math, and only reading and math. Our school does not have the staff to provide recess for all children. We do not have the money to fund an art teacher. We do not have physical education for all students. The building is overcrowded and in some places crumbling. The “full day” is a cheap political ploy that will do real damage to our children.

• 6. Need longer school day  |  January 16, 2012 at 9:17 pm

  My family fully supports the full 7.5 hour day, as do all of our friends and colleagues with children in CPS. Thanks CPS, for making this happen regardless of union bellyaching.

• 7. cpsobsessed  |  January 16, 2012 at 9:20 pm

  @6 Need longer school day: I envy your wholehearted acceptance of it. How are you envisioning that a successful 7.5 hour day would work? Stretching out the current class times? Or more enrichment stuff? More in depth work? Anything different?

  I can see both sides of the coin.

  I feel that my son needs more math time in school but I’m not sure if “more of the same” is gonna cut it, as he’ll just sit and zone out longer than he does now…..

• 8. anon  |  January 16, 2012 at 9:58 pm

  In the best interest of my children I think a 7.5 hour school day is too long..I am not opposed to a 6.5-7 hr day.Children & teens begin to tire and get bored so less attention is paid, in later afternoon hours.I wish for my children to be LIFE TIME learners not for CPS to bore or burn them out.This is also not a one size fits all situation,some children need less repetition and learn things quicker.Some high school kids are taking so many AP classes already that it is hard on sleep,family time and jobs much less having a social life then to add another 36 minutes.Anyone know what happened to AMPS?

  I am amazed a couple people I have heard say keep them in school til 5.30-6 so I can pick them up straight from work.

• 9. cps alum  |  January 16, 2012 at 10:27 pm

  I have lived in Chicago my entire life (except for 4 years of college).
  I live in Chicago because I chose to, not because of any requirement.

  I previously had no reservations about sending my children to CPS schools since I went to CPS and had a good education that gave me the skills I needed to be successful in college and beyond.
  I love Chicago more than any other place and have always believed that I would live here forever.

  But…ever since Rahm took over, I have been praying that my husband’s business takes off so we can sell our house (eat the loss) and buy in a suburb where the school board is run by people who know something about education and have the best interest of children in mind.

  I really resent that Rahm, a suburban transplant and not a true Chicagoan, is driving me out of the city I love so much. My daughter will enter kindergarten in the fall of 2013 and I don’t think I can send her to a 7.5 hour day of torture of more reading and math (which I’m sure she won’t need) with little else and no play just so that Rahm can score political points and continue to send his kids to Chicago Lab. I’m truly sick to my stomach.

• 10. anonymous  |  January 16, 2012 at 10:37 pm

  The longer day depresses me. I can’t put my small children on a bus at 6 a.m.!!! (and that would be the case next year) I can’t have us all coming home at 6:30 p.m.–the time we’d get home after I finished in my classroom, pick them up from daycare and drive home– just to eat dinner, do homework, put them to bed by 7ish. I didn’t have children so they could spend every waking hour with someone else.

• 11. Southside mom  |  January 16, 2012 at 11:09 pm

  I really resent the fact that CPS is trying to imply a longer school day will increase student achievement. It will only give teachers a longer break during the school day. Students will only be receiving an additional 20 minutes in core subjects. With the current staff at my child’s school currently, the plan isn’t going to work. Personally, I would rather my child be learning during this time, and not in preps.

• 12. John  |  January 16, 2012 at 11:10 pm

  @9 7.5 hours of torture? Are you kidding?

  Kindergarten is not compulsory. Keep your child home when they are 5 and then send them to 1st grade – here or in the suburbs.

• 13. day too long  |  January 16, 2012 at 11:18 pm

  Our child is at a school that adapted a 7.5 hours day. From the time he gets on the bus and comes back home, he has been gone for 9 and half hours. He is a kindergartener. He comes home exhausted, grumpy and starving. 15 minutes of the extra time is used for the mandatory breakfast, so even if we don’t want our child to eat the crappy food, he has to go to the cafeteria, where the staff coaxes him into trying the food out. He now drinks freezing cow milk in the morning. Recess and lunch time has been expanded. Those are supervised by college students or volunteer parents. Super long school day is not working for us. Absolutely no time for after school activities. Another hour a day spent on homework. With a 7 30p.m bed time, that leaves only 2 hours a day for anything else. It is insane.

• 14. Heather  |  January 17, 2012 at 12:03 am

  I’m really surprised by the number of negative comments regarding the longer school day. I guess my experience is a bit different. My child also goes to a school with 7.5 hr day, implemented this year. He is in 4th grade and this is the first year since he has been in CPS (he started in CPS at kindergarten) that he has had daily recess, which he absolutely loves. The homework load has been significantly reduced since the longer school day (he now gets the weekends to work on completing his homework). He also gets to work on his projects at school, so again much less time is spent at home working on them. Plus some of the weekly enrichment time is spent on technology. He is learning how to type, use PowerPoint, etc. Yes, the days are long…I’m a working parent so he does not get picked up until 4:30 to 5:30 pm and is picked up by the bus at 6:30 am. But I do think overall it has been worth it. If you look at the CPS calendar you’ll see that there is a rare month that they are in school 5 days per week for more than a week or two. The school year also starts much later that most other school districts. So I feel that time needs to be made up in some fashion.

• 15. LSC Momma  |  January 17, 2012 at 12:06 am

  A 7.5 hour day for a child is not developmentally appropriate. In that time, the child will get 20 minutes for lunch and 25 minutes for recess. In contrast, I am lucky enough to work an 8-hour day (sometimes more, sometimes less) and I can get a lunch break, enough trust and flexibility to take it when I want it, and coffee breaks. Grown adults can’t sit in one place doing the same thing for hours on end. It reduces productivity and efficacy. We’ll have tired, burnt out kids. Schools with minimal resources will just turn to test prep and more of the same stuff that hasn’t been working in the first place.

• 16. cps alum  |  January 17, 2012 at 12:26 am

  @12 John–

  You don’t have to tell me about state laws and ISBE rules. I’m a teacher and I know that kindergarten isn’t compulsory in Illinois. I also have taken more than a few child development classes, philosophy of education, child psychology, and brain science courses Sorry but 7.5 hours is torture for grades k-4 considering that they will only get 45 minutes of down time a day with PE once a week and little or no music and art.

  Why don’t you tell the Rahm and the CPS BOE that daily PE is compulsory in Illinois.

• 17. Paul  |  January 17, 2012 at 7:58 am

  I agree about making physical education compulsory every day. It’s better for children to get some physical exercise during the longer days, especially for the youngest children. It’s also required by state law. CPS has a waiver from the requirement for high school only. Illinois requires PE every day for all students in elementary and middle school. It’s also considered instruction, so CPS can use some of the 90 minutes as PE and still claim that it is additional instruction time.

  For students in the elementary grades K-5, PE can be taught by the classroom teacher. For students in the middle grades 6-8, it must be taught by the gym teacher (certified in PE). A group of CPS teachers recently came up with comprehensive and specific recommendations for how to use the additional minutes from a longer day, and one of their recommendations is to provide PE every day for all students as required. Here’s a link to their report: http://vivateachers.org/2011/12/12/chicago-viva-teachers-recommend-better-ways-to-spend-time-in-school/

• 18. WendyKatten  |  January 17, 2012 at 8:14 am

  Just a note about the RYH stance. We have been telling CPS that parents who took our survey wanted something under 7 hours. But more importantly, we don’t think the funding is there to staff a 7.5 hour day across the whole school district and provide necessary programs that many parent want – such as increased PE, arts, etc. The issue isn’t really the time alone. I have been meeting with community groups across the city and most people want more than core subjects for their kids. That doesn’t mean that some extra time for math or science and reading isn’t wanted, but parents want their kids to have regular PE, music, social studies, etc. There is no other large urban district that has extended the day to this length for the whole district. If it is going to be done well, it requires a lot of money.

• 19. Rain2  |  January 17, 2012 at 8:51 am

  16 CPS — Send your kids to private school so you can stop complaining.

• 20. Mayfair Dad  |  January 17, 2012 at 9:11 am

  I believe the longer (full) day is a win for children.

  I have concerns the extra time will be used appropriately, for the benefit of our children.

  My gut tells me this will be a political football between CPS and CTU for a very long time, compromising the effectiveness of this gift of extra instructional time. This makes me sad.

  Like Wendy, I wonder where the money will come from. I suspect the already successful schools will fund raise and grant write to pay for enrichment. The less successful schools will babysit.

  For most schools, a longer lunch period and time for recess is a blessing. Let’s focus the fight on supporting funding for the rest. Ultimately this means extra teaching positions.

• 21. anon  |  January 17, 2012 at 9:16 am

  Recess is wonderful and my children have had it their entire elementary school life thanks to a wonderful staff,wonderful teachers,and volunteers.My children have also learned powerpoint in grade school,and have had art,music,a second language etc all in a “6 and half hour day”.Yes some of these extra teachers have to be funded in full by parent donations,so I am not sure how CPS is going to come up with the money for this.This has been the perfect time for us.We have been lucky and were a able to chose different public schools with varying times for preschool,kindergarten,and elementary level.High school times seem all the same except the two highest test scoring schools which have a half a day once a week.I kind of resent that now I will have no choice except between public,suburbs or private.If I had to do this all over again with a kindergartner I would definitely not have chosen to send my child to CPS at that age with 7.5 hour days.
  The one day a week my elementary school aged child does choose to be in school 7 and a half hours he comes home cranky,tired and frustrated.This day is the least productive of our homework days.He usually ends up ripping his homework up several times before he finishes it and this is a straight A student who still absolutely loves school.I do not think I can put my children through this 5 days a week.So happy for those of you who can survive the 7.5 hour day.
  This like I said in post 8 is why I do not think this is a one size fits all situation.

• 22. anonymous  |  January 17, 2012 at 9:26 am

  This school year Philadelphia used a $55 mln federal School Improvement Grant to help 9 persistently low-performing high schools. They added more supports to a longer day and optional half-day classes every other Saturday morning.

  It is well-planned, well-funded and targeted to serve the greatest need.

• 23. anonymous  |  January 17, 2012 at 9:58 am

  Anyone else get notice that Central Office is cutting Young Authors and Real Men Read Programs due to budget constraints?

• 24. c.l. ball  |  January 17, 2012 at 10:25 am

  @5 Kudos for providing the links and summarizing the info.

  At Oscar Mayer, for the past two years, I have frequently heard teachers say that there is too little time in the current day for instruction, so some increase in time is good. Many current schedules do not account for movement between classes, lunch, and recess, so scheduled instruction time is more than actual instruction time at the current school day. Of course, this does not mean that 105 minutes need to be added; a lesser amount could work.

  But CPS has done nothing to plan for increased compensation for teachers or for support staff, which currently have longer hours than teachers but less than the 105 extra minutes that CPS will add next year. CPS has violated almost every recommendation that the CAP report on the Mass. program makes about planning for a longer school day. Moreover, CPS has made no provision for the targeted tutoring that Mass. used.

  As @5 points out, there a number of ways increased funding could be used aside from an extended day.

• 25. dianeb  |  January 17, 2012 at 10:53 am

  My dd goes to Hamilton and her school day 8am-2:30pm plus an hour of after school programs per day. She comes home happy, starving and tired from the long day. She loves the daily recess and lunch time with her friends. Next year, I’m probably not going to sign her up for as many after school activities because she’ll be at school until 4:30 then.

  Personally, I see no issue with the longer school day as long as they use the time well. I would personally prefer a 6 1/2 – 7 hour day instead of the 7 1/2 hours. But arguing about 30 minutes is silly to me nor will it cause me to move out of the city.

  I do think it’s funny that the Lab School has a 5 hour and 40 minute school day which is what Rahm is saying isn’t good enough for Chicago kids but apparently it’s good enough for his kids.

• 26. anon  |  January 17, 2012 at 11:25 am

  from the Lab school page “We are more than just test scores and college admissions statistics. We are about learning well and complementing the work of one of the world’s premier institutions of higher learning, the University of Chicago. Our academic program is rigorous, but we are as interested in the development of character as we are in scholastic achievement. Alumni from all over the world regularly attest that it was at Lab where they learned how to think deeply and thus learned how to learn.”
  http://www.ucls.uchicago.edu/about-lab/index.aspx

• 27. anon  |  January 17, 2012 at 11:28 am

  The sentence right before that paragraph says.”The Lab schools mission is focused on students”
  didn’t copy it all the way.

• 28. NW Parent.  |  January 17, 2012 at 1:00 pm

  My wife and I are both teachers and we will transfer our sons out to the local Lutheran school next year. All three of our sons score in the 95th percentile and above in reading and math. The extra 90 minutes will really give us teachers more down time. My sons are all active in sports and other activities beyond the school day and this extra time will only extend what they already do. At my school students get PE once a week for 40 minutes. Next year they will still get PE once a week for 60 minutes. We already have recess for ten minutes and next year they will get it for 20-25 minutes. Not to mention time to do homework. Unless CPS is going to do away with homework, my children will not have time to do their normal after school activities. Speaking as a parent and not a teacher…7.5 hour days are too long. Since Rahm has taken over Chicago, I do not feel the same about living in Chicago. I loved living here and working here. This is no longer the case. My wife is already started to interview for suburban positions. I am exempt from living in the city. As much as I hate to say it…Park Ridge, Morton Grove, or Niles here we come!

• 29. anonymous  |  January 17, 2012 at 1:10 pm

  I feel the same disappointment about the city since Rahm has taken over.

• 30. cpsobsessed  |  January 17, 2012 at 1:15 pm

  Good post (and as always, great writing) by Claire Wapole of RYH:

  http://ilraiseyourhand.org/content/do-you-feel-lucky

• 31. HS Mom  |  January 17, 2012 at 1:25 pm

  Our high school has had its extended day meeting, submitted a plan that was due 1/8 and has made a presentation to parents and students. Very positive all the way around. They voted on a block schedule which will include a block of time for academic enrichment. Currently my child has a science teacher who starts at 6:00 every day with his door open to students and 2 math teachers that alternate after school to be with students. Our new schedule will incorporate this “extra” time into the day and make attendance part of the schedule. I couldn’t be happier with the arrangement and my son is on board. The program was well thought out and positively promoted to families.

  Our old grade school had a 6 ½ hour day. Like others have mentioned, teachers felt that there was not enough time in the day to do everything and so it came home. I would have personally prefer that my child spend more learning time with the teacher. At any school the support that a child gets after hours is going to range from 0 to micro manage so I don’t see how it would be feasible to differentiate between schools for a full day.

  I’m wondering how many people moving to Chicago would opt for the city because it has a longer school day vs. the suburbs. Seems to be a win for the city.

• 32. cpsobsessed  |  January 17, 2012 at 1:26 pm

  I have mixed feelings about Rahm. Given how CPS looks test-score wise (and what we all know about dropouts, kids not being able to read, etc) I appreciate that he wants to make some changes. Something HAS to change for the kids whom CPS is failing.
  I just feel like he latches onto an idea quickly and gets pig headed about it. If he could use some of that resolve to fight for extra funding for CPS, I think we’d all be a lot more on board.

  As for Brizard, I have to wonder…. have you ever had your boss come up with some hairbrained idea and you have to go into the client/customers/big boss/etc and act all excited about it? JCB is a smart guy. I wonder if he really supports the 7.5 hours with no extra funding? Not sure we’ll ever know the answer to that.

• 33. anon  |  January 17, 2012 at 1:46 pm

  @ HS MOM
  Alot of suburban schools already go 6.5 hours to 7 hrs 10 minutes. So I don’t think that will be too much of a factor especially with the price of city stickers,city parking prices, gas prices etc.I have been told by many suburbanites (School personnel and non school personnel) that I am crazy to stay in the city.There is no testing to get into better schools in most suburbs.Every school has gifted classes etc.Plus so many other amenities.They also tell me their children aren’t under so much stress.And now it’s being rubbed in my face that suburban libraries are open on Sundays and Mondays.UGH

• 34. Bookworm  |  January 17, 2012 at 2:44 pm

  I wonder who the parent volunteers are that are currently staffing the longer day at the pilot schools. I am guessing stay at home parents with the ability to help out. I also wonder how many parents who don’t volunteer at school during the day think little of how large an impact this has on the parents who must give their extra time to keep this possible. While I value and enjoy the extremely large amount of time I spend during program time an my children’s school I blanch at the unfunded needs we will have next year. Many of the heavily pro extra hour and a half parents I meet at my child’s school are parents who have never taken any time to volunteer during the day. It will not have the same impact on their family comparatively if they are not getting the calls to help. If we don’t help who will?
  The longer day has been fodder for our family to plan a move to private school for all of our kids as much as we love their school.

• 35. Mayfair Dad  |  January 17, 2012 at 2:49 pm

  Re: Fighting for Funding the Longer Day

  How do we, as taxpayers, prevent the fight for additional funding to properly implement the full day from morphing into additional funding for the teachers union pension shortfall?

• 36. NW Parent.  |  January 17, 2012 at 3:31 pm

  Our school barely has a PTA. How will we find enough volunteers to make it work? CPS has an idea but never really thought it out and how to make it work.This needs to be funded, not rely on volunteers. Most schools do not have the parent support to make this happen. I know there are a lot people out of work and would volunteer but what will happen they go back to work? Hire people to do things and you will have better consistency.

• 37. anonymous  |  January 17, 2012 at 3:54 pm

  Today’s back pack has delivered a pleasant letter from Mr. Brizard saying that “We created these Full Day guidelines with Full Day Community Advisory Committee, which includes numerous organizations throughout Chicago representing multiple stakeholders ….”

  But nothing about funding.

• 38. Mich  |  January 17, 2012 at 5:39 pm

  The way to actually do it right is not to have more sitting in the classroom for most kids. For the kids that can learn everything that way, they’re already doing fine. You can add 10 minutes a day per subject and it isn’t really going to benefit most kids more.
  What we need is to find a way to address where kids are falling through the gaps.
  In one classroom you generally have Child A who is an arithmetic wizard but can’t grasp polygons while Child B has beautiful spatial skills but cannot multiply or divide. What teachers actually need time for is to be able to properly differentiate the teaching styles. But that requires more bodies in the classroom, and that is something CPS is doing less and less of.

• 39. local  |  January 17, 2012 at 6:16 pm

  Will volunteers be vetted with criminal background checks and get training like the Catholic schools require of volunteers?

• 40. cpsobsessed  |  January 17, 2012 at 7:49 pm

  Thanks for the info, Wendy. I guess the problem is that CPS says the parents THEY talk to want a longer day. And clearly there ARE parents who do want it. I guess we have no way of knowing that the true majority is so they’re gonna use their numbers.

  **One thing I forgot to mention, at the RYH meeting I got to meet the much-mentioned Rod Estvan. The guy knows more about state budget stuff than could fit in my brain. I told him we know Grace, his biggest fan…..

• 41. Angie  |  January 17, 2012 at 8:27 pm

  Maybe they talked to parents who aren’t also a CTU members?

  Just a thought.

• 42. WendyKatten  |  January 17, 2012 at 8:58 pm

  @cpsobsessed: What numbers are they using? I don’t remember CPS asking anyone what they wanted. In fact, we are on the Advisory Committee with them and they had the 7.5 hours decided before the first meeting. The advisory committee discussed a lot of things around quality of the day according to our RYH rep who attends the meetings, but the guidelines that recently came out were not voted on by the committee and not really the thrust of the discussions at all. I am aware there are all kinds of opinions about the length of the day. We have just said that the majority of parents we surveyed wanted between 6.5-7 hours, not that parents don’t want a longer day, The bigger issue is quality and funding, and while CPS says most parents don’t care about those issues and only want more reading and math, I am not finding many people who echo that.

• 43. jksaf  |  January 17, 2012 at 9:05 pm

  @33 I agree–I don’t think people will be moving to the city from the suburbs because CPS is increasing the school day as they probably already have at least a 6.5 hr school day. I work at a suburban high school which is part of a unit district and the kids attend 7.5 hours, middle school kids 7.0 hrs and the elementary kids go 6.5 hrs. I found this to be the same at my previous suburban district also. It’s only the city Catholic schools(which I also worked at) and CPS that have 5.75 hrs. So be aware if you are looking to transfer your kid to a private/parochial school it may be just as short! But in my current district which predominately middle-upper middle class (only 13% low-income), they can afford to offer PE (by a certified teacher), art, music as well as recess for the elementary kids and a dozen AP classes and multitude of electives across the disciplines. Unfortunately, CPS does not have the money to do this, but that should not stop them from lengthening the school day at least by 45 minutes if they are at 5.75hrs. That time can easily be filled as mentioned by previous posters by doing any number of things and that can be done by current staff.

  Thank you CPSObsessed for keeping this blog going and updating it with the regularity that you do. I am the parent of a toddler so I have a few years to figure out what to do and find this blog very valuable.

• 44. anon  |  January 17, 2012 at 9:24 pm

  Why do people assume that parents who are against such a long unfunded day are part of CTU? I am not. As Wendy stated above they say they want input but I ran into same type of experience. The school one of my children attends said they wanted input but basically they just presented us with a blueprint of the day they had already prepared to send to CPS.It was basically a waste of my time.

• 45. anonymous  |  January 17, 2012 at 10:00 pm

  #44, fwiw, principals are being instructed by central office to ask for input even though they cannot really implement any input. Their hands are tied. I bet your principal is dying about all the things she cannot tell you and how stupid she feels holding input meetings that she can’t do anything about. You would be shocked about all the stuff that is going on behind closed doors of schools that staff and principals are not allowed to tell parents.

• 46. anon  |  January 17, 2012 at 10:09 pm

  ugh number #45 I kind of don’t want to know.but that does make me feel a bit better as my child attends one of the top schools and has always sought out student and parent input before.It did seem a bit odd.

  Oh and before I misquote the now famous Wendy Katten I meant to say as she stated “I don’t remember CPS asking anyone what they wanted” in post 44.Thanks for all you do…

• 47. cps alum  |  January 17, 2012 at 10:51 pm

  This is exactly why we need an elected school board in Chicago. As long as the mayor has control of the school board, CPS will do whatever they want without having to listen or care about what parents want. Additionally (and unfortunately) when the mayor runs for reelection, too few people will vote exclusively on the issue of schools. Thus parents do not have recourse in the one elected official who has the power over our school system and ultimately our children’s wellbeing in school.

• 48. WendyK  |  January 17, 2012 at 11:14 pm

  @46. Haha. If I am famous, it is only in small circles of aggravated CPS parents.

• 49. Angie  |  January 17, 2012 at 11:52 pm

  @47. cps alum: “As long as the mayor has control of the school board, CPS will do whatever they want without having to listen or care about what parents want.”

  How do you know that parents not affiliated with the CTU do not want a longer school day, if it means better education for their children? The current system is not working, so something needs to be changed. Good for Rahm for caring about education more than about pleasing the unions.

  Someone here mentioned that Lab School has a very short day. But they have their pick of the brightest children there. Is it so surprising that these kids can learn faster than the ones going to failing neighborhood schools?

  Also, we have the shortest school day and the shortest school year among the big cities, but do we also have the lowest-paid teachers? And if not, is there any particular reason that they should be paid more per hour than teachers in other cities, given the less than stellar results at many of the CPS schools?

• 50. anonymous  |  January 18, 2012 at 7:35 am

  @49, my kids’ school has, based on test scores, some of the brightest kids in the city rivaling U of C lab school any day. Our school is not failing and every year people try to bribe (unsuccessfully) their way into our public school. Why should our school day be 7.5 hours then? Why should my children be punished? If a school is “failiing” then perhaps a longer s school day is in order. But there are a good 50 schools system wide that do not need a nearly 8 hour day no matter how you look at it. Should all children have to learn the same way? Good teachers know a lot about differentiating instruction. Apparently the board of education is still backwards and thinks everyone should be doing exactly the same thing and differentiation doesn’t apply to them.

• 51. anonymous  |  January 18, 2012 at 9:18 am

  I agree #50. The aim of the 7.5 hour day is to get students college and career ready — which means a minimum 20 on the ACT, according to research by the U of C Consortium. So it makes sense to focus well-funded on the schools that have the greatest need.

• 52. anonymous  |  January 18, 2012 at 9:19 am

  “well funded interventions”

• 53. Anonymous  |  January 18, 2012 at 9:32 am

  One reason I favor the longer day is to give teachers more time to instruct the students.

  My child’s teacher constantly talks about not having enough time to do what he wants to do. He’s always talking about how to find time for this and that. He’s a young and motivated man and is trying to do his best for each student. However, with such little time with the kids, he cannot.

• 54. anon  |  January 18, 2012 at 9:38 am

  I agree @50 focus some money where it is actually needed furnish those lower scoring schools with books, libraries, reading specialists give each child some Individual attention,Maybe give each child two new novels to take home each year allow them to go on field trips etc. Why should certain schools get to waste money by using this time for study halls which can’t be called study halls.My teen volunteered to paint in two elementary schools. He says the things they don’t have compared to the schools he has attended is jaw dropping he kind of felt ashamed.Also on the two block walk there from the bus he said he never felt so scared in his life..People actually yelled at the group to go home and get out of their neighborhood from doorways.

• 55. anonymous  |  January 18, 2012 at 10:07 am

  Th 7.5 hour day should definitely not be yet another one-size-fits-all-CPS -program. But that looks exactly like what it is — since CPS won’t fund it..

  BTW, #53, CPS is talking about much more instructional time on reading and math. But not much else.

• 56. Anonymous  |  January 18, 2012 at 10:12 am

  @55 – yes, that’s exactly what the students need — help with reading and math.

• 57. anonymous  |  January 18, 2012 at 10:13 am

  # 53 — Did you realize that CPS has mandated that teachers spend one hour in prep with colleagues and another 45 minutes in a duty-free lunch? That’s 105 minutes away from the students each day.

  Even with a longer day, your child’s teacher won’t be able to do more for his kids. He can’t be in the same room for 105 minutes.

  There is no additional time for the teacher to teach his /her students.

• 58. anonymous  |  January 18, 2012 at 10:17 am

  Many students need more time with reading and math, but not all students do. CPS said there are 143,000 students in low-performing seats. There are a bit more than 400,000 CPS students.

  Makes sense to focus there first with a plan that has funding.

• 59. Anonymous  |  January 18, 2012 at 10:27 am

  I’m so glad to here that my child’s teacher will be relaxed after a decent lunch break! And he’ll have time to plan with colleagues which will help him tremendously since he’s a young teacher.

• 60. anonymous  |  January 18, 2012 at 10:33 am

  Would anyone else love to know how different the schedules are for CPS elementary schools?

  My children have always attended a small CPS school where the day was 6 hours long. Teachers took their lunch at the end of the day. The day always included 2 specials plus a 45-minute lunch and recess. Busing is available, and b/c we are on the early start — 7:45 to 1:45 — the buses can do double-duty and provide transportation for another school.

  Each week we have Gym, Spanish, and Library. Art is every other week (that’s what we can afford). Years of great principals have made sure of an excellent After-School Matters program plus music instruction for a fee.

  Which means our teachers already get 90 min. of prep time when their class goes to 2 specials each day.

  Question — what are our teachers going to do with another 105 minutes away from the kids?

  Or are they gong to take away the specials?

• 61. anonymous  |  January 18, 2012 at 10:37 am

  59 Yes, he may be more relaxed, but he won’t get to spend any more time with his students than he has this year.

  The longer day is extended for 105 min. and keeps teachers away from students for 105 min.

• 62. Anonymous  |  January 18, 2012 at 11:05 am

  So what will the kids be doing for those 105 minutes when the teachers are busy collaborating and eating?

  Anyone know?

• 63. Full day at last  |  January 18, 2012 at 11:10 am

  The way this conversation is going I thank God we have a mayor the protects the best interest of the kids.

  Parents @50 calling the full day “punishment” and teachers calling school “torture”. This is exactly why we need the heads of the system to just decide.

  Don’t you trust your schools with the “brightest kids” to plan a schedule appropriate for their level of learning. Could this not be a plus?

• 64. Mayfair Dad  |  January 18, 2012 at 11:12 am

  Can’t please all of the people all of the time. Some posters on this thread bemoan the fact there is no ironclad blueprint in place for how to implement the full day. Other posters demand flexibility to utilize the extra time to yield the greatest benefit for their specific school population. Everyone is wondering where the money will come from. Let me break it down for you:

  The full (longer) day will require extra teachers to add such necessities as music, PE, recess, art, computer lab, etc. This will require a new, equitable funding model to bring the extra dollars to CPS to make this a reality. Unfortunately, the legislators in Springfield view Chicago as a massive sinkhole where money disappears and the schools still suck and have sucked for a long time, regardless of how much tax money is pumped into the system. Additionally – and this is a biggee – the public employee unions wield waaaay too much influence and any state tax increase for education is likely to end up in the teachers’ pension fund and not the classroom.

  Enter Rahm Emanuel, the new sheriff in town. You remember, the guy that 85% of Chicagoans voted for to clean up the mess Richie Daley made? I didn’t vote for status quo, I didn’t vote for squandering more tax money on the failed policies of the past and I sure as hell didn’t vote for a new mayor who would play pattycake with CTU.

  Until Rahm finishes cleaning up the mess (and this includes neutering CTU in the next contract scrum) CPS will remain underfunded by Sprinfield and Washington, DC. Why hasn’t the former head of CPS now in Washington, DC sent one penny of Race To The Top money to Chicago? Break the union first, the money will follow.

  Those schools who drink the Rahm-aid will continue to receive cash rewards, likely paid for by manipulating TIF accounts or an undisclosed foundation grant from one of Rahm’s powerful friends. Those schools who continue to side with CTU re: the full day will find themselves on the wrong side of the battle.

  Do you know how I can tell the full day is good for kids? Because CTU is against it.

• 65. Mom of boys  |  January 18, 2012 at 11:14 am

  I also agree with #50 – I think (with the exception of no recess) that my kids are getting a really good education with their current hours, and don’t need more time with a teacher in the core subjects. In general their school’s statistics reflect a good education for the whole student body. So what is very needed in the lower performing schools might not be beneficial in the better performing schools, and the resources should be alloted differently from school to school.

  FWIW – I’m wondering if you folks who post as “anonymous” could pick a random name, so we could follow your posts over time more easily? It’s just confusing to try to piece together which comments are from the same person and make sense of the dialogue.

• 66. anonymous  |  January 18, 2012 at 11:26 am

  http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/do-schools-need-a-longer-school-day-a-debate/2012/01/02/gIQA0GPGZP_blog.html

  Here’s a good read — if you are interested in the opinions of 2 different groups on how to make the best use of additional time.

  Jennifer Davis says that since after school programs are voluntary, they don’t have the same impact on the poorest and neediest students, so that is why she favors a compulsory longer day.

  Seems she agrees that our main focus should be on the 143,000 who need it most, whose families and communities don’t have the resources others do.

• 67. Angie  |  January 18, 2012 at 11:41 am

  Can you all anonymous anons add a number to your moniker, or something? It’s hard to have a conversation not knowing which one of the anonymous persons you’re talking to.

  @50. anonymous: “@49, my kids’ school has, based on test scores, some of the brightest kids in the city rivaling U of C lab school any day. Our school is not failing and every year people try to bribe (unsuccessfully) their way into our public school. Why should our school day be 7.5 hours then?”

  Is it an elementary, non-selective enrollment school? Then, if these kids are really so bright, why not teach them more material, so they will have a leg up when it’s time to compete with gifted and classical students for the precious few SE high school seat?

• 68. anonymous  |  January 18, 2012 at 11:56 am

  # 67 Those decisions are best left to the principal, LSC and parents who know the children. The children are testing well, and that school already has a well-rounded curriculum with enough specials to keep a child motivated and inspired.

  Every school doesn’t have to be modeled after the Korean cram schools, does it?

• 69. anonymous  |  January 18, 2012 at 12:09 pm

  On a lighter note — this blog writer is a very funny satirist.

  http://www.laststand4children.blogspot.com

  “In our country, we pride ourselves on our meager attempts to bring common core standards to the American education system. In North Korea, 10,000 school girls will cry for 48 hours in tribute to their fallen leader. North Korea’s leader Kim Jong Il was a despot, but the education reform movement owes a great deal of thanks to North Korea’s enigmatic little leader.

  “When Mayor Bloomberg in New York announces that he would like to fire half the city’s teachers and double class size or when Mayor Emanuel in Chicago closes down those schools that have displeased him, I can’t help, but see a little bit of beloved leader there. Like him or not, Kim was the master of doing things his own way because it was good for the people of North Korea. Some people may have thought he was crazy to kidnap a movie director to make a Godzilla ripoff for him, but he thought it was good for the people of Korea. His $700,000 annual liquor tab was just the kind of cost overrun so many great reformers have dealt with.

  “According to North Korean historical literature, “Kim Jong Il was born in a log cabin inside a secret base on Korea’s most sacred mountain, Mt. Paekdu. At the moment of his birth, a bright star lit up the sky, the seasons spontaneously changed from winter to spring, and rainbows appeared.” “

• 70. Eric  |  January 18, 2012 at 12:59 pm

  @Mayfair Dad –

  CTU isn’t against a longer day, they just want to be compensated for it, (understandably so since their contractual raise was revoked and CPS exec’s were given raises last year).

  Also, they don’t trust Rahm and Brizard to know what to do with that time. They’ve made this clear when they weren’t prepared to tell schools what to do with the added time.

  The push for a longer day is an attempt to correct the after school violence of last year. This violence partially stems from school closure/turnover which sent kids from one area into rival territories (Derrion Albert).

  It’s cheaper to do this rather than actually support these under funded schools, which would actually prevent crime in the future. They have to make it a blanket policy so it doesn’t look like it’s targeting schools in under-served schools.

• 71. TwinMom  |  January 18, 2012 at 2:23 pm

  Mayfair Dad, Illinois is getting $43 million in Race to the Top money. I’d love to hear why you believe the unions have something to do with it. The states who won “first round” money have some of the strongest teacher unions in the country.

• 72. HSObsessed  |  January 18, 2012 at 2:51 pm

  Just want to repeat here that the CPS school day has always been 6.5 hours, forever. However, under union rules, a school’s teachers could vote to put the .75 hours of paid teachers’ lunch time at the end of the day, which 95% of schools did, and then left that policy in place for decades. This vote created a 5.75-hour school day for kids, and it allowed the schools’ teachers to leave campus right after classes ended, even though it was their paid “lunch time”. Then, those teachers likely spent 1+ hours at home doing prep work, grading papers, etc. Under the new rules, the lunch time can no longer be voluntarily moved to the end of the day, and there is an hour added into the school day during which they can collaborate, prepare, grade, etc. It seems to me that 1.75 hours away from the students can provide a much-needed mental and physical break.. (I remember reading of teachers complaining that bladder infections run rampant among CPS teachers because they don’t get a bathroom break for 5.75 hours each day. TMI, I know.)

• 73. cpsobsessed  |  January 18, 2012 at 3:01 pm

  @72 HSO: But somewhere in there, the kids are getting more instruction time, right? Based on what you’ve laid out and what someone else said, it seems like the teachers are not actually extending their teaching time (or if so, fairly minimally.)

  So it seems like this leave a major scheduling challenge for schools to cover that time for a class while teachers are doing other things. OR, teacher will be co-erced to be with the kids longer than they’re suppose to be (and I agree… they need a solid mental break.)

  Or is that they’re with teacher X while teacher Y is having their downtime?

  In the end, it just seems like a school needs more adult bodies to cover that extra time that the kids are in the building…..

• 74. HSObsessed  |  January 18, 2012 at 3:58 pm

  Yes, kids will be in school longer, and there absolutely needs to be a plan (and funding) for whoever is teaching or supervising them, I agree.

  I’m just reiterating that because the argument that teachers are now being asked to work “more” for the same pay doesn’t entirely sit well with me. They were always being paid for 6.5 hours AT SCHOOL, even though most bolted after 5.75 hours. One can conceivably say that they’re now being forced to spend one of the hours at school doing what they would otherwise do at home (which I understand would cause personal scheduling problems for teachers with childcare issues, etc.). Maybe that is worth more money, I concede.

• 75. cpsobsessed  |  January 18, 2012 at 4:22 pm

  Sorry, this is long, but is from a recent Press Release from CPS: (I have edited out a few superfluous paragraphs. I’ve very happy about recess, but sad to think that many schools seem to have depressing, no-grass lots for their play areas…..

  CHICAGO — Chicago Public Schools (CPS) today announced they are co-writing a recess guide with teachers from the Viva Project that will assist principals in developing their own recess plans for next school year as recess, as part of the Full Day initiative, is implemented across all district elementary schools. This guide will build upon the recess guide that was developed last year, and includes input from representatives from community organizations such as Healthy Schools Campaign, Raise Your Hand, and Community Organizing and Family Issues (COFI).

  The VIVA Project is an independent organization that works to increase classroom teachers’ participation in education issues across the country. Last December, the VIVA Project, in partnership with National Louis University, launched the VIVA Teachers’ Chicago Ideas Exchange, a project that solicited the feedback of nearly 600 CPS teachers in developing recommendations for the Full School Day. The ideas in the recess guide will be rooted in the recommendations set forth in VIVA’s collaborative report written by the members of the Idea Exchange.

  “The Viva Project’s Teachers’ Chicago Ideas Exchange has turned out to be an incredible resource for us to ensure that teachers, who have a critical voice and perspective in this process, can help shape how to best utilize the Full School Day,” said CPS CEO Jean-Claude Brizard. “Recess is a key part of the full day and studies show that having time for recess not only promotes lifelong habits of healthy living, but also increases the likelihood of a student’s success in the classroom.”

  The VIVA Project teachers offered many suggestions for the Full School Day, including recommending that schools be given flexibility in shaping their school day, promoting creative scheduling strategies like double blocks, and presenting recommendations for time allotments by groups of grade levels, rather than separate allotments for each grade.

  The resource guide will include recommendations that will assist principals in addressing various issues that arise in scheduling recess such as; ensuring the safety of all students and making accommodations for students with disabilities. This guide will be particularly helpful for those principals who did not previously have time to provide recess in the past.

• 76. Mayfair Dad  |  January 18, 2012 at 5:17 pm

  @ 71 TwinMom: Duly noted, I just read the article dated December 23, 2011. Illinois finally got a taste of RTTT$ in the third round. I must have been Christmas shopping that day and missed the article.

  In the previous rounds, Illinois was turned away due to lack of buy-in from teachers unions re: accountability measures. States that won the money in the first two rounds were able to demonstrate union cooperation. I’m not sure CTU is even included in this latest influx of cash because the proposal is submitted by the state BOE.

  If someone has confirmation that CTU is cooperating with ISBE on securing RTTT$, please share the link.

• 77. Mayfair Dad  |  January 18, 2012 at 5:24 pm

  @ 71 twinMom part II: here is a blurb I found after a quick Google search:

  “Jim Vail – October 19, 2010

  The Illinois Federation of Teachers (IFT) hit hard at President Obama’s educational agenda by passing a resolution that rejected Race to the Top at the IFT convention in St. Louis October 15-16. Unlike last year when the IFT, under the direction of the American Federation of Teachers and Randi Weingarten, refused to oppose Obama’s education plan that calls for more charter schools and merit pay for teachers, this year marked a complete reversal, thanks to the newly elected leadership of the Chicago Teachers Union.”

  Karen Lewis and CTU are actively working against RTTT$. I’m sure there are other articles out there.

• 78. Mayfair Dad  |  January 18, 2012 at 5:34 pm

  One more post on a related issue, re: NY tying education funding to teacher evaluations. This isn’t much different than Rahm’s “cash for compliance” approach.

  http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-17/cuomo-offers-2013-budget-of-132-5-billion-that-plugs-2-billion-deficit.html

• 79. anonymous  |  January 18, 2012 at 5:37 pm

  Btw — 2010 — this is not a very recent blurb, MFD. A lot has changed; primarily the passage of SB7 in May 2011.

  That bill pushed through many of the most important of Duncan’s education reforms that curtail the waning power of CTU, like

  –getting rid of collective bargaining,
  –getting rid of seniority and tenure,
  –no longer having to hire only credentialed teachers,
  –teacher evaluations based in part (40%) on student test scores, and
  –a longer school day.

  How long exactly was left up to the mayor to decide. He seems to like 7.5 hours for everyone.

• 80. anonymous  |  January 18, 2012 at 5:39 pm

  So a lot was accomplished there.

  And Quinn just announced that Illinois got $43 mln in RTTT funds, I seem to recall. I’ll try to find the link.

• 81. anonymous  |  January 18, 2012 at 5:41 pm

  http://www.illinois.gov/PressReleases/ShowPressRelease.cfm?SubjectID=3&RecNum=9943

  Here it is.

  Seems like much of it will be put toward STEM, which sounds like a very good idea.

• 82. anonymous  |  January 18, 2012 at 5:45 pm

  About the cash for compliance, or, as some have called it, Race to the Trough:

  Generally speaking, school funding should be sustainable so that programs can be successful and support children over time.

• 83. anonymous  |  January 18, 2012 at 6:18 pm

  This is from an education blog called PURE — a story about a PAC that helped push through the bill that made the 7.5 hour day possible. They will be calling CPS parents tonight.

  $tand for Children calling 50,000 Chicagoans tonight

  http://www.pureparents.org

• 84. anonymous  |  January 18, 2012 at 6:22 pm

  @57, teachers will have 105 minutes of time away from the kids, but not ON TOP of what is happening now. Instead of a 20 minute lunch, there’ll be a 45 minute duty free lunch. Instead of 4, 40 minute preps per week, there’ll be 5, 60 minute preps with one of those being designated as collaboration (which means meetings). So, yes, there will be plenty of time for more instruction.

• 85. cpsobsessed  |  January 18, 2012 at 6:28 pm

  http://www.stand.org/national/about

  This is the group who (as I understand it) pushed through the legislation that made the 7.5 day possible. not sure if they advocate a longer day or not. Their site looks like they have good goals in mind, but PURE hates them for some reason (I’m guessing they support charters?)
  Never in a million years would I have guessed that there could be so many competing factions in education, when you know we all want the same goal.

  I’m reading what has happened at some of the long-day schools. While I think 7.5 is too long, this doesn’t sound so bad:

  Disney II:

  30 additional minutes for language arts
  10 additional minutes for math
  25 additional minutes for other core (social studies, history)
  25 additional minutes for enrichment
  Gym, art, music

  Stem:

  35 additional minutes for language arts
  20 additional minutes for math
  10 additional minutes for science
  10 additional minutes for cultural arts
  15 additional minutes for enrichment
  Current Events/Global Issue review

  More here:
  http://cps.edu/Programs/DistrictInitiatives/FullDay/Pages/LongerDayDetails.aspx

• 86. cpsobsessed  |  January 18, 2012 at 6:29 pm

  A co-worker of mine just asked when I get into work so we could schedule a meeting. I said usually 9:20 because of my schools drop off time, then I went into a long rant about how next year I will be one of those early-to-work people who gets here well before 9 because of the 8am start time.

  He said “ok, then next year’s meeting can happen at 8:30″.
  Hm, not sure he shared my outrage.

• 87. anonymous  |  January 18, 2012 at 6:57 pm

  @72. no there is not going to be an hour added into the school day for collaboration/prep. That added hour and longer lunch are replacing current prep and lunch times.

• 88. RL Julia  |  January 19, 2012 at 8:32 am

  I think that the longer school day works for some CPS sub-populations better than others. Little kids – not so well, middle school kids -great! Higher achieving students with lots of home support -not so well, kids with needs greater than the school system has time to deliver on currently – yay!

  When Chicago implemented the idea of “school choice” it allowed its system to fragment into a whole bunch of smaller systems. This was allowed for a lot of politcal and financial reasons but it has resulted in a there being a lot of cps-funded academic universes out there -all banded together by the (stressful) misnomer of “choice”. In theory we can all “chose” to send our kids to a gifted program etc… althought every person on this blog knows the reality of this statement to be more like you can chose to jump through multiple hoops that might result in your kid going to a gifted program…or not.

  A functional school system would offer all the specialized things that have been fragmented out into individual schools at pretty much every school – the way that it is done in the suburbs. This would mean every school would have the resources or at least a functioning geographically regionalized plan to serve every type of student. While I wouldn’t give Brizard (or Rahm for that matter) credit for having the vision to try and unify CPS’s multiple tracks of schools (divide and conquer seems to be his personal mantra), I do think that one of the reasons that people are having such a hard time with the idea of a longer school day is that at this point, any solution for everyone is perceived as a solution for no one (or at least not me).

  All that being said, since this whole debacle is at this point a highly contentious and unfunded mandate, I wonder if we should all be talking about what will happen if next school year started off with a teacher’s strike rather than how tired or not tired everyone will be if the school day is longer….

• 89. Parents Raise Concerns About Longer Day | District 299: The Inside Scoop on CPS  |  January 19, 2012 at 8:55 am

  [...] Longer School Day Has Cost CPS Nearly $10 Million CNC:  Many parents and community members said they fear that a longer school day would not be adequately financed next year, forcing schools to do more with even less. ALSO Longer School Day cpsobsessed [...]

• 90. HS Mom  |  January 19, 2012 at 9:23 am

  @64 – Mayfair dad – RTTT aside, your comments are right on. I don’t think we’ll be playing pattycake with CTU.

  @88 – I think it’s certainly a fair assumption to make that there are varying viewpoints and needs with regard to a longer day. Also consider that parents active in their children’s education would embrace more time for learning even in primary grades and that many suburban schools are underfunded.

• 91. Wendyk  |  January 19, 2012 at 9:39 am

  @64 – there won’t be extra positions for next year. In fact, we will probably see some cuts to budgets. Keep in mind schools that are Ren10 schools, SE and magnet schools start off with more positions than average neighbhorhood schools, so it might be easier to implement a 7.5 hour schedule with no extra funding/positions. Also, some schools fundraise for extra positions, so there is that variable. But the typical neighbhorhood school is in a worse position for this. I spoke to someone on the LSC at a pioneer school on the West Side yesterday. They desperately want music, technology, language for their kids and still don’t have it despite being a “pioneer school.” It is a myth that most parents want only math and reading for their kids. They want what every parent wants,which is a full curriculum not just a longer day.

• 92. cpsobsessed  |  January 19, 2012 at 10:03 am

  Wendy, what has that pioneer school done with the extra time? Just lengthen the current classes each a bit?

  Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

• 93. Wendyk  |  January 19, 2012 at 10:35 am

  She said it was just more of the same except for the addition of recess which she said was a good change.I guess schools really couldn’t add the specials they might want because they didn’t know if the money would be sustainable. They could have added music or language but they would have had to fire the teacher next year b/c they won’t be getting the same funding. Some schools like Skinner North just split the money up between teachers and let them use it as they wished for their classrooms.

• 94. CPS parents raise concerns about longer school day | ChicagoNow  |  January 19, 2012 at 1:01 pm

  [...] Longer School Day Has Cost CPS Nearly $10 Million CNC:  Many parents and community members said they fear that a longer school day would not be adequately financed next year, forcing schools to do more with even less. ALSO Longer School Day cpsobsessed [...]

• 95. kiki h.  |  January 19, 2012 at 1:11 pm

  Just addressing a post very early in the discussion, my daughter goes to one of the longer day schools (a magnet) and has a homework load that is about equal to the homework at her old SE school. I doubt that the schools will ease up on homework.

• 96. goingtogermany0693  |  January 19, 2012 at 1:57 pm

  One thing that is so frustrating about the way in which this is being handled is the lack of thought in how to proceed. I understand that the majority of schools in CPS are in severe need of help (I used to work in such a school). I feel like this is just another “band-aid” approach instead of thoughtfully investigating how to go about long term sustainable change with long term results.

  For example: Jeffrey Canada has made great strides with his Harlem Children’s Zone project. A lot of effort was involved: from the community, to schools, to teachers, from donors of tame and money and of parents. The last one is especially important. To have parents completely on board, you need to work with them: communicate with them, not just tell them what will be done. CPS needs to look at all kinds of research (nationally as well as internationally, inner city as well as affluent, etc) before throwing a plan out there. Statistics and test scores cannot be the only factors in making a decision. Nor can you expect that by changing the hours in a day will result in the desirable change (preparing students to be high school and college ready).

  A lot of that needs to come from the home and it needs to start before children enter school. One of the things that Jeffrey Canada discovered is that making changes to a longer day in middle school was hard, but students were better prepared for future learning and success when they began one of the infant/toddler or preschool programs and then segued into school. One of the components of the aforementioned programs is parent participation and education. Parents need to be a part of the process early on and they need to know why.

  Then there are the families who do not fall into this category. They have read to their children since before they could talk, value activities that enrich their children and know that education is not confined to time within the school. Children need time to learn things from their family, friends, neighbors,community, etc (how to cook, do laundry, clean up after themselves, sew a button, be in charge of their own fun, solve their problems, etc) They do not need intensive programs to strengthen their reading and math skills. If the city is going to be strict on adding time to the day, they need to give it more thought and make sure it is unfolded appropriately for all children. There are enough studies to support various options for various schools that meet the needs of all children in Chicago. The question is, will the mayor and board do the right thing?

• 97. Eric  |  January 19, 2012 at 4:26 pm

  @goingtogermany0693

  While I agree that Rahm needs to use proven methods (which I have no faith in him to do), we also have to be careful about what is considered proven. Using public money for the private sector is not sustainable.

  Geoffrey Canada did not ‘discover’ that pre-school better prepares kids for elementary school (Head Start was launched in 1965). In fact many of HCZ “innovations” (community services, pre/after-school, music, arts, health services) are what gets cut from traditional public schools first, yet HCZ gets applauded and funded for their “innovation.” In 2009 HCZ actually kicked out the entire 9th grade class for not performing well.

  Parent involvement is essential, but many times we are dealing with a population that have been the victim of generations of poor schools and poor policies.

• 98. goingtogermany0693  |  January 19, 2012 at 5:09 pm

  @Eric
  I understand what you are saying. I know Canada did not discover that. I also know that other research on early childhood education shows long term benefits as well (Perry Hi-Scope Project). I also know that parental involvement is crucial and that trying to push a 7.5 hr day as a fix for getting all students ready for High School and college is not a reasonable solution to decades of educational and socio-economic mismanagement.

  I am not suggesting we have our own Chicago Children’s Zone. It would take a tremendous amount of effort, not to mention funds over a very long term. And it would not be necessary for the entire school population of the city. The most important thing you mentioned was the parent involvement and support component . I mentioned Canada because his involvement in trying to create change is more recent and it is more comprehensive in terms of starting when children are very young, getting families on board and continuing on with this model of involvement and expectations.

  The question is, how do we change the generations of poor schools and poor policies that many students are a part of. I think that is a bigger yet more important problem to deal with that if re-managed going forward could have great impact on the future generations of children.

• 99. anonymous  |  January 19, 2012 at 7:15 pm

  Canada went waaaay beyond just preK and social services. He created a cradle to college set of services and wrap around care and put them all together in one place at one time. He did something that had never been done before. He recruited families when they were still pregnant and their elementary schools are ten hour days. (crazy for some families–like mine, but helpful for others). Merely providing preK, even quality free preK for families doesn’t yield quite the miracle some people believe it does. There is research put out by Headstart itself that indicates the gains made by headstart kids disappear by 3rd grade (since nothing else is done to intensively make up for what kids don’t get at home the other years). I believe we need something far, far beyond prek. Don’t get me wrong, it would be a start and would make a difference for some kids. But I do believe that in order to truly and permanently lift most of our city out of poverty, we’d have to do something like HCZ. Maybe not the same thing, but something like it. Of course, there isn’t the money available to publicly do it. I won’t happen. But I do believe that is what most of CPS needs. At the same time, it is absolutely not what my family needs and if CPS mandated that model for my kids, we’d be moving tomorrow.

• 100. Eric  |  January 19, 2012 at 7:21 pm

  @goingtogermany0693

  I agree this is the crux of the problem but families are already on-board in their children’s lives, they’re just not always in-line with the prescriptive way in which our govt. hands down policies.

  Schools and the dominant society do not value their teachings which mostly are related to survival because of social disparities of race and class.

  To solve this issue we need to start with a more inclusive curriculum and viewpoint that values cultural differences, can learn from them, and treats them with respect.

• 101. anonymous  |  January 19, 2012 at 7:57 pm

  @74, wondering if this helps?
  Current elementary schedule for teachers per week:
  8:30-2:45 (with paid time from 2:45-3:30 for lunch)
  30 minutes prep time in a.m. x 5=150 minutes prep in a.m. Per week
  20 minute lunch x 5= 100 min. lunch per week
  4, 40 min preps = 160 minutes prep
  45 minutes of paid lunch at end of day =225 minutes per week
  6.5 hour day total (including lunch at end of day) = 2625 minutes time total per week
  of that, 630 minutes are for lunch, preps or before/after school paid prep time, 1095 instructional minutes per week

  Proposed elementary schedule for teachers per week:
  7:50-3:30
  10 minute prep in a.m. x5= 50 minutes prep per week in a.m.
  5, 60 minute preps during day x 5= 300 minutes prep weekly
  45 minutes lunch x 5= 225 minutes lunch per week
  7 hour and 40 minute day= total of 2300 minutes total working time per week
  of that, 575 minutes for prep or lunch, 1725 minutes instructional minutes per week

  Difference? 55 minutes LESS prep or lunch time per week, and 630 additional instructional minutes per week. Please, anyone, feel free to check my math. I keep looking at this going, this isn’t possible, but I think it is.

• 102. anonymous  |  January 19, 2012 at 8:06 pm

  Duh, seeing mistakes now….will be back to fix

• 103. anonymous  |  January 19, 2012 at 8:18 pm

  current minutes total=6.5 hours x 5 days =1950 minutes per week work time
  630 prep/lunch minutes
  1320 instructional minutes

  proposed 7 hours and 40 minutes (teachers) x 5=2300 min per week work time
  575 minutes prep/lunch
  1725 instructional minutes

  difference–405 additional instructional minutes, 350 total extra minutes of work.

  Apologies for the mistakes….trying to do this while helping my kids with their homework and helping one child choose a birthday cake idea to copy. Hopefully I have my numbers correct this time!

• 104. anonymous  |  January 19, 2012 at 8:33 pm

  Crap! I forgot that current day for teachers is really 7 hours (8:30-3:30 when you account for the 45 minute lunch at the end of the day) which means 2100 minutes total working time now, 630 prep minutes, 1470 minutes instructional time.

  proposed 7 hours and 40 minutes (teachers) x 5=2300 min per week work time
  575 minutes prep/lunch
  1725 instructional minutes

  So, that means the difference is only 200 extra minutes work time (a little more than 3 hours) and about 5 hours of instructional time per week. Honestly, after all that, if the district would give *a little* and make the student day 8:20-3:30, with 7:50-8:20 being morning prep time, it would be a wash for me. I still think it is too long for primary kids and my own kids, but wow, thanks for the impetus to work through all this. I don’t feel so bad. 5 hours of instructional time means about 10 hours more of work total per week, which isn’t as bad as I’d imagined. And likely, I will use more class time for worksheets and rest time so I can grade papers for 10 minutes a day while they rest, or clean up while they do a worksheet. Again, apologies for the mistakes.

• 105. AlwaysAnonymous  |  January 19, 2012 at 8:43 pm

  #104 – No, current school day is 6 hr 30 mins. It’s 5 hrs 45 mins when teacher lunch is pushed to end of day.

• 106. anonymous  |  January 19, 2012 at 8:48 pm

  @105, that’s for kids, I am talking for teachers. I have to clock in by 8:30 and am paid until 3:30. That’s 7 hours, right? (kids are there from 9-2:45 and my “lunch” is taken from 2:45-3:30)

• 107. Angie  |  January 19, 2012 at 8:48 pm

  @99. anonymous: “There is research put out by Headstart itself that indicates the gains made by headstart kids disappear by 3rd grade (since nothing else is done to intensively make up for what kids don’t get at home the other years). I believe we need something far, far beyond prek. ”

  Has anyone researched children from the third-world countries, who are sometimes first in their family to attend any school, and have poor and illiterate parents who are unable to read or do math problems with them? How do they do it?

• 108. anonymous  |  January 19, 2012 at 9:05 pm

  @107, do you mean immigrants in the U.S. from developing countries? If so, I can’t think of any research. But if it is worth anything, my experience has shown me they don’t typically do very well at all. You might hear a few success stories here and there, but overall, there aren’t many.
  If you do come across research on current day immigrants, I’d love to read it.
  A lot of people always point to folks a generation or two ago, who came from Poland or Korea or wherever. But 50 years ago, kids didn’t have to learn the sheer amount of things kids do know. And there aren’t nearly as many jobs for hard working, but low skilled workers who may or may not speak English well. There aren’t as many higher paying factory jobs with pensions, or machinist jobs, or welding jobs. Now, college is pretty much a must to succeed and I’d say a graduate degree is needed to go beyond lower middle class in many cases. The schools I have taught in–when you combine language issues, new immigrant status, and poverty and illiterate family–it is pretty much the kiss of death for most kids. The only exception I have seen is some Asian kids (India, China, Korea, Iran, etc.) because of the absolutely intense focus, and I mean crazy intense, in some families on education.

• 109. Angie  |  January 19, 2012 at 9:45 pm

  @108. anonymous: no, I mean kids who still live in those countries, and sometimes study sitting on the ground, dodge bullets on the way to school or get hate from the anti-education extremists. And yet their teachers still are able to teach, and the children still manage to learn.

  It seems to me that American school system knows how to educate the “average” child – the one with involved parents, college ambitions, and so on. But the system has no idea what to do with a child for whom the time they spend in school is the only learning time they are ever going to get. We need to find a way to educate these children instead of complaining about their parents who are most likely set in their ways and aren’t going to change.

• 110. anonymous  |  January 19, 2012 at 9:55 pm

  @109, Can I ask, how many of those developing countries have you actually lived in? I am asking because I have lived in two of them. And the students who I’ve seen who have dealt with flying bullets (which happens frequently in some neighborhoods of our city too), and who walk miles to school with no shoes (not being snarky, I taught in a village in Africa where this was the case), are educated well–up to about a 3rd-5th grade level. Upwards of 90% of those kids never go beyond that. They don’t learn to use a computer, they don’t learn how to research or have libraries or PE or art or much of anything. I am talking about kids dying of Malaria, HIV, and war. These were my students. We used soda bottle caps as math manipulatives. My 8 year olds would have loved to learn to read, but there were quite literally, no books, so any reading happened from reading what the teacher wrote on the board. The very few who went onto university are usually from rich families. All the others work in factories making shirts so Americans can buy things cheaply, or work on the family farm or sometimes, kids are sold into prostitution. That is if they live long enough to do so.
  I am not sure where you have gotten the idea that developing countries are able to send anything other than tiny percentages of their population to college, let alone adulthood. As bad as the U.S. education system is, we do far better with our students than most other places once you factor in poverty, crime, and lack of support outside of school.

• 111. Angie  |  January 19, 2012 at 10:58 pm

  @110. anonymous: “And the students who I’ve seen who have dealt with flying bullets (which happens frequently in some neighborhoods of our city too), and who walk miles to school with no shoes (not being snarky, I taught in a village in Africa where this was the case), are educated well–up to about a 3rd-5th grade level.”

  Isn’t that about the grade level of the kids from failing American schools, in spite of our much better quality of life and resources? What gives?
  Please explain how a child from an African village and a child from a major American city ultimately end up with the same level of knowledge.

  And I’m not sure where you’ve seen me talking about these African kids going to college. I certainly wouldn’t expect it from many of them, giving the circumstances. However, working at the factory or farm, sweeping the floors or serving burgers is still much better than making a living from theft, robbery or murder.

• 112. SandaC  |  January 19, 2012 at 11:09 pm

  Did anyone see that CTU is working with the gangbanger and felon Mark Carter to create trouble at Crane? Substance News has an article quoting a union organizer talking about the CPS public meeting a couple weeks ago saying, “Then it got even better, if such were possible. Mark Carter [sic] who had been a thorn in everyone’s side came up to me and said ‘We are on the same side.’”

  (http://www.substancenews.net/articles.php?page=2976)

  Since when do things get “even better” when a gang member gets involved? Parents should know this is Mark Carter the gang member who was questioned by the FBI last year for making threats against Congressman Danny Davis. I sure hope someone is trying to figure out who is paying this guy and why CTU is working with him.

• 113. karet  |  January 20, 2012 at 10:37 am

  At Skinner North, parents seem to be very happy with how the added time is being used. We have filled out numerous surveys and the concerns of parents have been addressed. There was overwhelming support for adding more Spanish, so a day of Spanish instruction was added for all grades. K and 1 now have two recesses. And so on. As far as I can tell, most of the unhappy people have very long commutes (for us, it’s a 45 min drive in the morning, an hour bus ride after school — for some it’s even longer). If everyone lived close (as in a neighborhood school), I think there would be just about unanimous support. But this is obviously an issue that affects all selective enrollments and magnets that draw from all over the city. Leaving the house at 7 or 7:15, getting home at 4:30 or 5 is tough, especially for the younger kids (my son is in K).

• 114. CPSsurvivor  |  January 20, 2012 at 11:27 am

  113 – Since the long commute is the price to pay for free, good education in the city, this is not too bad

• 115. anon  |  January 20, 2012 at 11:30 am

  @ 113 than try that commute why adding 2-3 hours of homework to the mix, in later years.Than repeat over and over again.Most high school kids in SE schools get home after 5.30 with
  sports,clubs,tutoring etc Doesn’t get much easier for teens. I feel for your kindergartner.

• 116. anon  |  January 20, 2012 at 11:31 am

  Oh and that is without the extra time added on yet.

• 117. local  |  January 20, 2012 at 12:21 pm

  @112 SandraC

  “Since when do things get ‘even better’ when a gang member gets involved?”

  I believe “even better” is used sarcastically by the writer. You see that, right?

• 118. NW Parent.  |  January 20, 2012 at 12:56 pm

  Parents at Skinner North seem to be happy but the question that has yet to be answered by CPS is funding. Skinner I believed received money for being part of the Pioneer Program. How will they sustain there current program/curriculum once that money runs out? If CPS could answer that question for all 600+ schools then I believe the majority of people would not question the new hours.

• 119. karet  |  January 20, 2012 at 1:34 pm

  @114, 115
  I should have made it clear that I do support the longer day. I don’t think it is ideal for K and grade 1, but I see the benefits of having the longer day for higher grades. Parents of the older kids seem even more enthusiastic because less homework has been assigned than previous years.
  @118
  The money could not be used to fund things like salaries of specials teachers (ongoing expenses).

• 120. Anon.  |  January 20, 2012 at 2:57 pm

  119 There is no sustained funding for teachers of specials or social workers, or reading coaches to enhance the longer day.

• 121. TwinMom  |  January 20, 2012 at 3:04 pm

  And *that* is why I’m opposed to the idea. Because we all know damn well that there is NO MONEY to fund this, system-wide, in the way that CPS claims it will be funded. They’ve set up this utopian version of what the day will look like, which of course sounds great to many parents (especially those in failing schools), and then neglect to mention how they plan to pay for it. And when I smell that, it smells a lot like empty posturing for CTU negotiations, not true reform.

  I’m generally opposed to 7.5 hours for kids under about age 10, but especially for kindergarteners and first graders. I don’t think that allows enough “creative brain-rest time/play time” for them. But even still, if I thought that all the kindergarteners and first graders, system-wide, would be in the utopian schools Brizard has described, I’d be moderately in favor. But they won’t, because there is no money to fund the utopia. Even if the new CTU contract made teachers work (literally) for peanuts, there wouldn’t be enough funds.

  I can already see the press conferences next summer, where Rahm and JC tell CTU that CPS must lower teacher compensation in order to pay for the longer day. Oh, I’m sorry, “fuller” day.

• 122. Anon.  |  January 20, 2012 at 3:10 pm

  112 Followed your link and I’m just wanting to clarify … I don’t see how you conclude that CTU is working with Mr. Clark, just b/c he approached Ritter and said he wanted to make clear that CPS had rented protestors. CPS paid pastors from the far south side who then hired outside protestors to come to the Crane meeting in an effort to influence the parents at the meeting. These were “the bussed in people” — they don’t live in the area and don’t have kids who attend the school.

  Sarah Karp, reporter at Catalyst, confirmed this same information.
  .
  From the Substance News story …

  “Then it got even better, if such were possible,” Ritter continued. “Mark Clark who had been a thorn in everyone’s side came up to me and said “We are on the same side”, and said he wanted expose the bused in people. His turn on the mike came, and he turned to the crowd and asked “What neighborhood are you from? People respond “…the hundreds, Englewood, Roseland”, etc. — all from the far South Side. Clark started saying, “The mayor paid off your pastor big bucks and what did you get?” His talking points remain true to exposing the bused in people and their leaders. They started shouting and fighting among themselves, security ask some to leave, and then many more leave on their own. The rent a protest had departed, leaving just the Crane people in the auditorium.

• 123. Anon.  |  January 20, 2012 at 3:16 pm

  All the school meetings asking parents what they’d like to see is pie-in-the-sky nonsense. It is just wasting our time and confusing the issue b/c there is no budget.

  They must think that we stupid parents will be somewhat happy if we think we have a say in the 7.5 hour day.

  We don’t, of course.

  Great p.r. spin from the mayor, once again.

• 124. anonymous  |  January 20, 2012 at 3:28 pm

  From district 299: This comment from a retired CPS teacher notes that a similar plan was enacted in 1993 which emphasized core classes and eliminated teachers and specials.

  “Busch said 3 hours, 1 minute ago

  Almost a year.

  In a couple of days I will reach my first year of retirement. I miss the people but Am keeping very busy doing the things that the pressure of teaching in Chicago prevented I am sure a lot of readers consider 1993 ancient history .I only write because , so far, nothing the board is trying To impose on the schools wasn’t unsuccessfully tried before .
  Going back to 1993 the board offered a 5+5 which was embraced my many veterans who retired. They were not replaced, schools had to do with a reduced staff. This was accomplished by gutting enrichment classes, in the name of the children”Time on Task” was the flavor of the year then. Students who had nine periods to fill every day now were programmed into seven. Gone were opportunities to take classes a kid wanted .Students were forbidden to take any extra classes no matter what the reason. It was about this time many bands began to disintegrate
  sacrificed on the altar of the new longer core.So what do I read in the new guidelines for the ”Full Day “ in high schools?
  The board is just going to pile on the core classes. That term must appear in every Paragraph I read. There was scant mention of a schools leeway ,it did mention enrichment classes on the bottom of the page. Nowhere did I see anything about adding more periods to the “Full day “or allowing more class selection for students. So my take is this : Time will be added to the core classes just like 93, absolutely no opportunities , during this engorged day ,can be spent on enrichment. The ‘Full day” becomes a “Bull Day” .”

• 125. Anonymous  |  January 20, 2012 at 4:31 pm

  114 — You’re right. We are not paying tuition. But CPS is supported by our property taxes.

• 126. LR  |  January 20, 2012 at 8:55 pm

  Wow! There are a lot of comments and I have no time to read all of them. I think it is ridiculous that Brizard and Emanuel can just dictate the length of day and there are no laws, no checks, no balances now that the teachers cannot negotiate. If more time equals better students, and you don’t have to pay the teachers one cent more, why not just keep our kids 10 hours a day? I’m being sarcastic, but I really don’t understand their insistence on 7.5 hours when teachers favor a 7 hour day and 84% of parents think a 7.5 hour day is too long (as per the RYH survey). I don’t think it’s going to be that difficult for the Teachers’ Union to gain the 75% needed for a strike. They might not be able to negotiate over the length of the day, but they can still strike over inadequate compensation (right?). And I hope they do strike if Rahm and Brizard don’t budge on this. Is one-half hour of school per day really worth risking a strike? If Rahm and Brizard think so, then they are out of their minds.

  I am just fuming about this. I guess the thing that makes me most mad is that every time I see Rahm talk about this topic on the news, he indicates that parents support what CPS is doing by adding 90 instructional minutes and that is a flat out lie. Overwhelmingly, we do not. At this point, I really don’t see how questioning Rahm on this topic is helpful. As parents, if we overwhelmingly do not support a 7.5 hour day, then we should not treat this as a “done deal” and be discussing things like “how the time will be used.” We need to be emphatic about the fact that we don’t support this plan, we don’t think it is good for our kids, and we aren’t going to just accept it.

  Is there any way we can urge our legislators to make a law that limits the length of the school day (especially for kids under a certain grade level)? I mean, if it is legal to take away teachers’ power to negotiate over the length of the school day, then why can’t we have a law that protects our children (especially young ones) from a school day that, for the most part, far exceeds their developmental capabilities?

• 127. Anonymous  |  January 20, 2012 at 9:00 pm

  The new mayor’s ability to lengthen the day is a direct result of the lobbying by a PAC called Stand for Children, which was invited to Illinois and funded to the tune of $3.5 mln by the Pritzkers, Crownes, Griffins and Sam Zell, among other of Chicago’s billionaires.

  They helped push through Il bill SB7 in May 2011 that gave the mayor the right to lengthen the day, among many other rights which sharply curtail the union.

  Can we change SB7?

• 128. Mom  |  January 20, 2012 at 9:10 pm

  Does anyone else think that the insistence on 7.5 hours is really just a tactic, and the real desire is 7.0 hours or 6.5 hours? Easy enough to “compromise” on that last half hour or so in negotiating the new contract. But likely fun for the mayor to watch CTU squirm and kvetch.

• 129. anonymous  |  January 20, 2012 at 9:16 pm

  @111, I agree that American kids with all this country has to offer should be doing better. And proportionally, they are. When I lived in a small African village, upwards of 90% of the people were living in destitution. I want to say the poverty rate in Chicago is about 50%. Still way too high, but we do better. I also don’t know if I feel like there is often such a big difference from parts of Chicago to where I lived in Africa. The “extreme” factor might sometimes be higher, but the situations are not all that different. When I worked on the west side, I had kids living in homes without running water or heat. I remember visiting one home where I discovered the apartment below where my student lived was home to 20 street walkers. The girl’s home didn’t have two entrances, she and the mother had untreated mental illness and there wasn’t food to eat in the home. It was definitely as dangerous as my African village.
  While most of our public high schoolers in CPS aren’t equipped for college, that is symptomatic of typical urban issues. And you are right, we haven’t figured out how to deal with kids with no support at home very well yet. Perhaps that is indicative of family support being vitally important?
  If we know anything, we know that parental support (along with some money) works. It works amazingly well. This is why I believe we need a Geoffrey Canada style change and why we need far beyond preK. We need at least 1 reading specialist per every 70 kids in the system, too. (costing billions)
  However, it does appear that our city is about to mandate that the school becomes more and more of a “parent” with more and more hours spent in school. Hopefully that really helps. I am not sure it will due to not being supported with finances and other supports, but I still hope it does.
  For me, though, my kids don’t need a new parent(s). They just need (and have thank goodness) a good school. But the longer day for my kids means 9.5 hours away from me. And my longer day, while not quite as bad as I originally imagined, leaves me 12 hours a day away from them (with commute and not including the work time outside the building). I don’t feel like I personally can have all of us on that schedule and have a meaningful, loving, close family life. This leaves me, along with many other reasons, no other option but to move my children into a system that has a school day length I support and the funding to match. I hope it works out okay for those who stay, I just can’t.

• 130. anonymous  |  January 20, 2012 at 9:19 pm

  128, I absolutely believe the Mayor is insisting on 7.5 hours knowing full well he really wants 6.5-7 in the end. Posturing. It will still be unfunded though.

• 131. Anonymous  |  January 20, 2012 at 9:41 pm

  129 Btw, in Chicago, 31% of children live in poverty .About 10,000 CPS students are homeless. And CPS says 143,000 are in low-performing seats. That’s where the attention should be paid, first. And then you and others who don’t want a 7.5 hour school day, wouldn’t have to leave the system.

  130 Like with his crazy infringements on our right to free speech and assembly, his response to his constituents real distress is never more than a small gesture that his pr people can spin into a big concession — showing his reasonable side. And if it is unfunded, it is still worthless.

• 132. Anonymous  |  January 20, 2012 at 9:42 pm

  Does anyone think he is more than a one-term mayor?

• 133. anonymous  |  January 20, 2012 at 9:49 pm

  http://us.mg204.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.partner=sbc&.rand=805avqj59i0l8#/minty/page/inbox

  On what the 7.5 hour day might cost.

• 134. LR  |  January 20, 2012 at 9:54 pm

  #128 and 130: I so hope you are right! I wonder if it infuriates the teachers as much as it infuriates me that they are sending out memos about the “fuller day” next year like this is a done deal.

  #127: Good question. I think SB 7 was one of those bills that had good intentions (lengthening the school day), but unintended consequences (a school day that is too long). I don’t know if it is easier to just introduce another bill or is there a way to “amend” SB7? And can I convince my State Rep that this is a constituent issue worth taking up? It is certainly a topic that people have strong opinions about, as indicated by this discussion.

• 135. Angie  |  January 21, 2012 at 2:05 pm

  @132. Anonymous: “Does anyone think he is more than a one-term mayor?”

  I sure hope Rahm will be with us for a good long time, or at least until he cleans up every union abuse out there (see firefighters’ mileage fraud, double pensions, CTA overtime, etc.)

  @129. anonymous: 12 hours away from family? Gosh. I know teachers are not used to this, but let me remind you that a typical working stiff has an 8 hour work day with 1 hour for lunch that they are not allowed to move to the end of the day. Add to it one hour or longer commute each way, which is pretty normal, and if such person stops to run an errand or pick up groceries along the way, they will be away from their family for the exact same 12 hours. That’s how the rest of the world lives.

  Oh, and dear teachers? When you figure out your slave wages, please take your salary and divide it by the amount of hours you work PER YEAR, and not per typical school day. I just looked over my CPS calendar and counted 15 weeks of school breaks on it, not to mention the additional holidays, like President’s day or Lincoln’s birthday that private sector employees do not get. Rahm can spin with the best of them, so do you think he won’t find a way to bring this up if CTU threatens to strike?

• 136. another cps mom  |  January 21, 2012 at 4:06 pm

  I cannot but think that Angie has never worked for at least one year in an urban public school teaching low-income students. Just my hunch.

• 137. Angie  |  January 21, 2012 at 4:10 pm

  @136. another cps mom: you are right about that. And?

• 138. karet  |  January 21, 2012 at 5:52 pm

  When I read over the comments, it seems that many people would fully support a 7 hour day, but are outraged by a 7.5 hour day.
  I don’t really understand the reasoning here.

• 139. RLJulia  |  January 21, 2012 at 6:58 pm

  Chicago needs a homegrown Jeffrey Canada – plus for all that the Harlem’s Children’s Zone has done for Harlem – let’s not forget that it provides very deep and expensive largely privately funded (which usually means more autonomy for the program) programming for impoverished families who happen to live in a 100 block area. Canada’s work has taken years to come to fruition in a way that makes it worth talking about. So its not just committing a lot of money to a community for one year and putting a lot of regulations and standards on the money – its ultimately making a 10-15 commitment understanding that there will be 5-7 years before you might see any results at all. Let’s remember that while this model is great and it appears to work – NYC still has plenty of crummy, poor neighborhoods with failing schools and etc… to go around.

  Which blocks in Chicago would you pick?

• 140. TwinMom  |  January 21, 2012 at 10:15 pm

  @138: I’d support a 6.5 hour day (which is what my kindergarteners currently have), but not a 7.5 hour day. That hour-per-day makes a huge difference in our lives.

• 141. LR  |  January 22, 2012 at 12:38 am

  @138: I agree with 140. I think the general consensus, or at least at the school we attend, is that we really like and want to keep our 6.5 hour day. I could live with up to 7, but would not be thrilled about it. 7.5 is way too long – especially when that additional time is strictly instructional minutes. Really, our school doesn’t need ANY additional instructional minutes (we do just fine without it), so adding 5 hours of instructional time per week is absurd to me, particularly when the funding is not there.

• 142. Too damn long  |  January 22, 2012 at 12:38 am

  138 — Many support a 6.5 hour day, not a 7.5 or 7 hour day.

  As always, the devil is in the details.

  1.) CPS has no sustained funding for any new programs.

  2.) It is not clear if the school year will begin in mid-August, but it could.

  3.) One size doesn’t fit all, but CPS wants kindergartners to high school students to attend school for 7.5 hours.

  4.) 7.5 is the longest school day in the nation by far. This school day is an experiment. The average school day in the U.S. is 6.5 hours.

  5.) There is no more time with teachers.

  Elementary students will attend school for another 105 minutes.CPS has mandated that teachers must be away from the students for 105 minutes: in a duty-free 45 min. lunch and 60 min prep each day.

  6.) This means that teachers could be laid off and class sizes will grow.

  Since children must be supervised when the teachers are engage.

  7.) Mt. Greenwood School expects to lay off 4 teachers in order to hire the low-level employees needed to supervise the children.
  Class sizes are expected to increase from 27 to 37 students.

  8.) Some parents believe that decisions regarding their children’s school day should be made by those closest to them: parents, LSC, teachers and principal — not the new mayor.

  9.) Some parents resent the interference of a PAC from Oregon called Stand for Children, who pushed through the bill that allowed the 7.5 hour day.

  From Catalyst Magazine:
  http://www.catalyst-chicago.org/notebook/2012/01/11/19744/stand-children-launches-campaign-school-turnarounds

  “Senate Bill 7 also gave Chicago school leaders the power to unilaterally lengthen the school day, which had previously been a subject in collective bargaining.

  After the bill was passed last year, in a speech in front of the Aspen Institute, Executive Director Jonah Edelman described how his group outfoxed the CTU in getting the bill passed and bragged that the bill would effectively prevent the teachers from ever striking.

  http://www.suntimes.com/news/cityhall/6481908-418/unions-pols-angry-about-advocates-boasts-that-he-snookered-them-on-school-bill.html

  Local activists have also been skeptical of Stand for Children because of its supporters. Though the Illinois chapter has not raised much money this year, last year it collected more than $3 million from local deep pockets including Sam Zell, formerly of the Tribune Co., and the Pritzker and Crown families.

  (Penny Pritzker was appointed to the Chicago Board of Education by Mayor Rahm Emanuel.)”

  http://www.catalyst-chicago.org/notebook/2011/04/12/stand-children-illinois-raises-3-million

  P. P.S. What are other school districts doing about a much longer day?

  http://articles.philly.com/2011-10-02/news/30235364_1_academic-achievement-middle-schools-charter-schools

  Philadelphia received a $55 million federal School Improvement Grant to fund a much longer school day for 9 persistently low-performing high schools, where the graduation rate was below 50%. The funds provide many supports for deserving students, including optional Saturday morning classes.

  Unlike Chicago, Philadelphia did not try to impose a longer day throughout its school system.

• 143. Too damn long  |  January 22, 2012 at 12:40 am

  139 — RL Hasn’t CPS started a Promise Zone in Roseland?

• 144. anonymous  |  January 22, 2012 at 1:39 am

  137 — She’s too polite, so I’ll translate. Angie, your tone is unpleasant.

• 145. HS Mom  |  January 22, 2012 at 11:09 am

  @143 – Not at all.

  Angie, thanks for voicing what many parents feel.

  @140 we already have an approximate 6.5 hour day. Schools with recess have these approximate hours. There is also time for entrance and dismissal figured in to that.

  @138 Thank you!

• 146. Anon.  |  January 22, 2012 at 12:44 pm

  @ 140 — 144

  CPS and Rahm have been beating this drum for months: the typical school day is 5.45 hours in Chicago.

  The vast majority of schools do not add 20 min. of recess to the 5.45 hours.

  A few do, but I know at least some who add 20 moin of recess into a 6 hour day. It’s a very comfortable length of day.

• 147. cps alum  |  January 22, 2012 at 12:44 pm

  It sees that many people like compare the # of hours per day a teacher works with the # of hours per people work in other jobs in the private sector (many times office type jobs). These comparisons are an over simplification. You cannot compare jobs by the # of hours on the clock. Different jobs take a different toll on the mind and body. There is a reason that air traffic controllers work 8 hour shifts with 30 minute breaks every 2 hours (and many people think this is insufficient).

  Teaching can be extremely rewarding, but is a mentally and emotionally draining profession. (Even more so for teachers in urban schools compared to affluent suburbs). I have many friends who worked in both teaching and then left for second careers. All of them have found their fatigue greater in the classroom, even withoug summers off. I have one friend who was a very gifted teacher. She truly gave it her all but burned out after just 7 years. After her first year in her new office job she commented to me how she finally understood the concept of the “happy hour.” For the first time in her working life she actually had the energy to go out after work and unwind with friends.

  @Angie- I’m not going to pass judgment on how hard your job is, I would hope you could do the same for teachers. It may be a cliché but the old adage is true “ Never judge a person until you have walked a mile in his shoes.”

• 148. Anonymous Mom  |  January 22, 2012 at 1:05 pm

  Is it mainly stay-at-home moms and dads who are against the shorter day?

  Trying to preserve his/her reason for “staying home to take care of the kids”?

• 149. cps alum  |  January 22, 2012 at 1:17 pm

  @147- I’m a working mom and I’m against the 7.5 hour day even though it would be more convenient and cheaper for me child care wise. I think a school day schedule should be planned in the best interest of the children (developmentally speaking) and not the work schedules of the parents.

• 150. Anon.  |  January 22, 2012 at 1:24 pm

  147 — I find your phrase

  “trying to preserve hi/her reason for staying home to take care of the kid?”

  both interesting and, I have to say, judgmental.

  Some parents have kids with special needs, of course. But others simply enjoy being able to raise their own children.

  They have the freedom to participate in activities together and with other families in the neighborhood, becoming a strong part of a vibrant community. These parents know their child really well, b/c they are not distracted by the pressing concerns of their jobs.

  I wouldn’t judge a working mom, I was one. But to each her own, of course.

• 151. cpsobsessed  |  January 22, 2012 at 1:31 pm

  Wouldn’t stay at homes be against the longer day if they wanted to “justify their time at home”? Makes it harder justify when the kids are out of the house 8 hours a day.
  We’ll have to wait to see what their press person says, I guess.

  Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

• 152. anon  |  January 22, 2012 at 1:40 pm

  @ 147 So are we to assume than that everyone who is in favor of the longer day will be in return be saving money on daycare?

• 153. Working mom  |  January 22, 2012 at 4:40 pm

  How does one save more $ on day care? Please advise.

  The bulk of the extended time will be in the morning 1/2 hour more or less of after care does not change the price.

• 154. anonymous  |  January 22, 2012 at 5:54 pm

  We looked closely at what our costs would be this fall. I teach for the city and our childcare costs would go up. If we stay in the system, our kids bus will arrive at 6:15 a.m., meaning the kids would have to wake up at 5ish to make it to the bus stop. We are unwilling to make them do that. So we’d have to pay a sitter from 6-8 a.m. since I will have to leave for work at 6 a.m. to be there by 7 a.m.. That’s $400 a month just for morning childcare.

  We decided since we feel the 7.5 hour day is developmentally inappropriate for children, and since we don’t want them to go through the high school process pressure to leave the system. We will move nearer to their grandparents and enroll them in a non-CPS school. For us, it is a win-win all the way around. Grandma wants to do morning and after care, which means they get to be with family and we get free childcare. They also get a guaranteed good high school and we can afford a house that way. My husband’s commute will be cut by about 70%. And their school day will be 6.5 hours in a district that funds itself well.

  I will change the area I am teaching in so I can take advantage of the residency requirement until I can find a job in a better school district.

  I would like to know, since as Angie pointed out, there does seem to be quite a large population of parents gone 12 hour days (mine will be 6 a.m. until 6 p.m., I am guessing most working parents must then be gone from 9 a.m. until 9 p.m plus bringing work home too?), is how exactly do you all do it? Currently I am gone from 7 a.m. until 5:30 p.m. with about 10-15 additional working hours outside the building. The only way this is semi-workable is we hire a house cleaner twice a month, pay someone to cook for us once a week and we eat out a lot. It is an honest, not snarky, question. How do all you parents who are gone 9-9 and who bring work home too do it? I need pointers!

• 155. cps alum  |  January 22, 2012 at 6:15 pm

  Costs for childcare vary by family and work schedule. With the 5.75 hour day I would need both before and after care. With a 7.5 day, I’ll only need after care. Regardless I DO NOT want the 7.5 hour day. I would welcome a 6.5-6.75 hour day for grades k-4. A 7 hour day is palatable for grades 5-8, but I feel that 7.5 is too long. When do they

• 156. Anonymous  |  January 22, 2012 at 8:36 pm

  Here’s the schedule for my middle school nephew

  6.5 hour school day includes 20 min. lunch, gym every day, 2 specials which rotate betwe4n music, art, Spanish and computers.

  Optional 1 hour after school program offers track, math club, fitness club, chess club, and many more.

  It is a quality day with enough to keep their interest. It is not a day that crams reading for 120 min and math for 90 each day.

  Their per-pupil expenditures, my sister who is a teacher said, are lower than CPS’.

• 157. Anonymous  |  January 22, 2012 at 8:51 pm

  Length of time is a big part of parents’ concerns. But equally important is the quality of the curriculum. And the absence of any funding makes the quality a sticking point.

• 158. kiki h.  |  January 24, 2012 at 9:52 am

  Another huge concern is that the longer day pretty much nixes all after school activities. I feel that it puts the cps kids at a huge disadvantage. Between the homework load and the long day, there really isn’t time for swimming lessons, music lessons, etc. Isn’t that kind of a narrow life for a kid?
  And if people are so worried about childhood obesity, well, giving the kids very little time for play and exercise isn’t going to help with that either.

• 159. Anonymous  |  January 24, 2012 at 10:06 am

  The long day. long year mandates are a government intrusion — federal, state and city — directly into neighborhood schools and family life.

  How on earth can the mayor decide to just push through a 7.5 hour day — the longest by far in the country?

  Is this America?

  When have the parents’ been invited to be part of the discussion of this major public policy initiative?

  They have not been invited, of course. As a matter of fact, Stand for Children’s Edelman bragged that he hired the best pr firm to keep parents in the dark about his PAC’s push for SB7 “ed reforms” — which got us in this long day, long year mess.

  Which pr firm do we thank for this? I’e always wanted to know since I saw the Edelman’s Aspen institute video. We were completely left out of the decision-making regarding our kids. Where was the media on this? Was it Jasculca & Termin or Resolute Consulting? How much did they make on this? How can they defend their great work on hiding the formation of public policy on behalf of public school children in Illinois?

• 160. mom  |  January 24, 2012 at 10:27 am

  This is a very interesting conversation. When I first saw that the school day would be increased to 7.5 hours I was all in favor of it. My kids attend the British School, and starting in JK the hours are 8:30 – 3:15, increasing to 8:30 – 3:30 in K. It has been great for them, they come home tired, hungry, and so happy. Every day my 5 year old gets in the car and says ” THAT was a good day”. So I don’t think the amount of time is the issue at all. In the 7 hours my kids are at schools they have THREE recesses, PE, music, french, 25 minutes for lunch, social studies, computer time etc. There is very little homework until second grade. I don’t think the amount of time is a problem as long as the programming is there to keep the kids engaged and learning. It allows for relaxed transitions, and more flexibility in programming. But 7.5 hours as described by CPS does sound like torture as described by a PP. How disappointing that Rahm has the chance to do good, to enact real change, and instead has taken the easy ( for him) way out.

• 161. Angie  |  January 24, 2012 at 11:02 am

  159. Anonymous: “The long day. long year mandates are a government intrusion — federal, state and city — directly into neighborhood schools and family life.”

  Except that you’re not mandated to attend a CPS school. Switch to private, move to the suburbs or to the city that has the next shortest school day to Chicago. It’s a free country.

  I consider myself a fairly informed parent, and I fully support a 7.5 hour school day and the SB7. I also see right through the CTU attempts to appeal to parents, taxpayers and whoever else they can think of in their attempt to avoid changes to the status quo.

• 162. Anonymous  |  January 24, 2012 at 11:31 am

  Yes, Angie, it’s a free country, and you think it’s appropriate to tell a tax payer about whom you know absolutely nothing, who disagrees with you to send her kids to private school.

  But I think it’s appropriate for tax payers to hold their elected officials accountable for their actions, especially when those actions have been purposely undertaken to exclude the public’s participation — all so that the public will not learn that the long day, long year means much larger class sizes.

• 163. AnonymousAnonymous  |  January 24, 2012 at 11:42 am

  I agree with Angie.

• 164. Anonymous  |  January 24, 2012 at 11:50 am

  Why not call it the , “it’s my way or the highway, just don’t forget to leave your property tax payments like usual,” line of argument. ; )

• 165. Angie  |  January 24, 2012 at 12:31 pm

  @162. Anonymous: “Yes, Angie, it’s a free country, and you think it’s appropriate to tell a tax payer about whom you know absolutely nothing, who disagrees with you to send her kids to private school.”

  For years, the tax payers who disagreed with the too-short school day
  and lack of recess were essentially told the same thing – take it, or go elsewhere. How is this different?

• 166. AnonymousAnonymous  |  January 24, 2012 at 12:41 pm

  It’s different in 2 ways:

  – no funding for the long day, long year

  – much larger class sizes as teacher are laid off

• 167. anon  |  January 24, 2012 at 12:43 pm

  My children had a longer school day and recess.There was choice available.Not much but still choice.Here there will be no choice.

• 168. goingtogermany0693  |  January 24, 2012 at 12:45 pm

  Plus, at this late time of notification, parents do not have a choice to apply somewhere else as those deadlines have passed. And, unless they are renters, most families would have to sell their home in order to move to the suburbs. And, as a previous poster mentioned, the parents have not been invited to participate in any related discussions about the matter (in a meaningful way that is).

• 169. cpsobsessed  |  January 24, 2012 at 12:49 pm

  Why is there the assumption that the longer day result in layoffs and bigger classes?

  Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

• 170. AnonymousAnonymous  |  January 24, 2012 at 1:00 pm

  Angie, the person disagreeing with you took on my name, I guess to look like someone who agreed with you is now disagreeing with you. Lame.

• 171. cpsobsessed  |  January 24, 2012 at 1:04 pm

  You guys lost me……

  Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

• 172. Joel  |  January 24, 2012 at 2:19 pm

  Lovely discussion here. As a neighborhood high school teacher on the southwest side, my two cents…
  The longer school day is a good thing, but the more important thing to look at might be the longer school YEAR. Currently at my high school (Farragut) we have 8 periods at 46 minutes and a 14 minute division (homeroom). Once a week we have long division which cuts classes down to 41 minutes.Students have one full period for lunch, so they are in a classroom 7 periods. At my alma mater, LTHS, we had 7 periods (academic) at 51 minutes plus a 25 minute lunch (I only put this in for comparison). I would also think that the longer school year gave us an advantage academically. As the AP Language and Composition teacher, I start with my students Labor Day, while my friends out at LT have already had 2 or more weeks with theirs. I advocate for longer day, but my thought was that the school year might do well to look something like this:
  Begin mid-August. 2 weeks break over Christmas. Year resumes until end of June. Students have approximately 6 weeks to rejuvenate. If it were up to me, I’d limit that to 4 weeks over the summer but that’s just me. Ultimately, the longer school year would allow for some intense depth of instruction and the ability to have flex-scheduling (like they do in Europe) which would add the elective courses.
  I applaud the many of you who send your children to be tuaght in CPS-you’ve given me a job for 7 years. Thankfully I won’t ever have to make this decision.

• 173. anonymous  |  January 24, 2012 at 5:33 pm

  In short, your suggestion is to cut CPS summer break down to 4 weeks!

  Thanks, but no thanks.

• 174. anonymous  |  January 24, 2012 at 5:38 pm

  169 — this information comes from the parent group at Mt. Greenwood school.

  CPS is not funding the long day but it is mandating that teachers spend 1 hour 45 min. away from the kids.

  Right now Mt. Greenwood school gets very little in Title 1 funds. It uses its discretionary funds for 4 teachers to keep class size down to 27, and for a music teacher. But the lack of funding means it will have to use the discretionary funds instead for low-level employees to supervise the kids while the teachers at away from them for 1 hour 45 min.

• 175. goingtogermany0693  |  January 24, 2012 at 5:51 pm

  I agree with anonymous@173 for many reasons. My kids read almost every day in the summer, get plenty of fresh air and exercise, play freely (and engage in problem solving) in the neighborhood and spend time visiting their grandparents in another state and in another country. Plus, the tv is rarely on. I think it is important for all children to spend time fostering relationships with others. Although we are becoming a tech-heavy country, communicating and problem solving with others are still important skills to have.

• 176. anonymous  |  January 24, 2012 at 5:54 pm

  175 — I’m with you. We need to preserve those sweet childhood summers. We parents know how fleeting childhood is.

• 177. anonymous  |  January 24, 2012 at 5:55 pm

  @174, not to mention that each school will have no choice but to hire additional “prep” teachers to cover the increased amount of prep times (5-60 minute preps instead of 4-40 minute preps). That means, the current budget will have to stretch to include hiring an extra teacher or two or three, depending on the size of the school. If a school doesn’t get more funds, but has to hire more prep teachers and more aides for lunch/recess supervision, something big has to give. Who knows what will happen in the end, but it is possible class sizes will rise. Come August or September we’ll all find out.

• 178. anonymous  |  January 24, 2012 at 6:04 pm

  177 — Anyone who has ever organized anything — even a pancake breakfast — would not put out a mandate for 7.5 hour day and not think of the staffing required.

  Our mayor certainly has thought this through. But I fear that CPS has dropped an iron curtain on this topic to keep parents uninformed — and hoping for the best.

• 179. HS Mom  |  January 24, 2012 at 9:48 pm

  @172 Joel – thanks for your thoughts, very refreshing. I love it when I see a high school teacher concerned with balancing time and curriculum to achieve the best for their students. Thankfully, we have many teachers like you at our school. We don’t need to agonize over extended time because in many ways we already have it.

• 180. Janina  |  January 26, 2012 at 12:45 pm

  I oppose a longer school day. We are enrolled at Decatur Classical School. My son is 5 yrs. old and is on the bus just before 7 am and gets home before 4 pm. He is tired in the morning, refusing to get up and tired coming home as it is. He is on the buss for the total of 2.5 hrs./day. We do not need a longer school day. Instead our family needs a great local school with classroom size being half of what it currently is at 28-35 students. DCS though needs cafeteria, a normal size gym, classrooms for grades 7 & 8 and parking space. We need smaller well equipped classrooms, great network of libraries and more parental support in order to compete with the rest of the world.

• 181. HS Mom  |  January 26, 2012 at 3:24 pm

  I really feel for those who have issues depending on busing. We had a long commute to school and the bus was even worse. Taking the bus meant a pick up time 1 1/2 hour prior to the start of school and there were only 4 kids on our bus! Because having our kid on a bus for 2.5+ hours a day was not an option for us, we made driving arrangements that effected the work schedule of 3 people. For us it was a sacrifice we were willing to make to attend the school. I wish we had a local option, but we did not. We felt fortunate enough to have any school option at all and felt that it was all part of the deal.

  Busing is only offered to select schools and then to select children and rarely is it ever convenient. Time spent on the bus is a fixed component that is present regardless of school hours. School hours and programming should not be impacted by a “perk” that some people choose.

  @ 180 totally agree with you that we need better local options and smaller class sizes or a dependable flow of assistants/teacher interns. Many neighborhoods are making great progress doing exactly that. Part of that progress in my opinion is a 7.5 hour day. If CPS developed a specific differentiation plan then bright kids that get into schools such as Decatur would be able to spend their time in school excelling even further instead of on a bus for 2 hours.

• 182. practicalmama  |  January 26, 2012 at 7:00 pm

  Has anyone paid attention to school day start times?

  On the notice we’ve received, it indicated that 7.5 hr day would start at 7:30 am. How can our kindergarten and elementary aged children wake up at 6-6:30 am, get prepared, get to school before 7:30 am and be ready to learn something? In order to get adequate sleep, they have to be in the bed by 7:30. is that even possible with all the homework, let alone family time?

  Many scientific research shows that sleep deprivation decreases the effectiveness of learning in children. This means, if any extension to school days require earlier mornings, the children will be less likely to benefit from it.

  Honestly, I prefer that my kids get a good nights sleep, wake up fresh and happy (instead of grumpy) and learn more efficiently in 6.5 hours (or less with shorter lunch breaks) than sleep-learn with longer school days.

• 183. Lynn Geerdes  |  January 26, 2012 at 7:20 pm

  My big concern is that if there is a longer day, I want there to be an OUTDOOR recess. I understand the teachers union is requiring that teachers have a duty-free lunch and recess, so they may have to resort to see if there are funds for paid workers to cover recess just to ensure the kids in fact get one. They are strongly considering an ‘indoor recess” which I don’t think counts as recess at all! My son is at Skinner West and sometimes he is there until 6 because I am a single working mom and attorney. The benefits of an outdoor recess are well documented; kids need fresh air, Vitamin D and sunshine during the day or it can lead to illness and long term health concerns. I want to ensure the longer school day absolutely incorporates an OUTDOOR recess so our bright and blossoming kids don’t turn into flowers in the attic. I’d welcome thoughts in this regard.

• 184. anonymous  |  January 26, 2012 at 9:48 pm

  Since it is unlikely bus service will be cut (though every year they talk about it), schools will still probably start anytime between 7:30 and 9:00 a.m., like they do now in order to stagger buses. Which really will mean 6 a.m. or earlier pick up times for some and 5/5:30 p.m. drop offs for others, depending on start and end times. It isn’t just magnets and SEES schools that use bus service. Buses serve many sped kids that cannot be served in their neighborhood schools. They also serve kids who are being bussed from their neighborhoods because their school was closed, because of nclb options for underperforming schools and sometimes in cases of overcrowding. People who have the means to use different transportation or to go elsewhere will, those who don’t will have to just deal. Maybe bedtime will have to happen at 6-6:30 p.m. for little ones instead of 7:30 p.m. so they can get up at 5? Not that I think this is a good thing, but it may be the only option.

  I also agree with the pp on outdoor recess, but we have to understand that 30-50% of the year, outdoor recess won’t be possible due to rain,cold, or icy playgrounds on blacktops. Administrators will be wary of lawsuits and will keep kids inside when weather is questionable. In those cases, extra staff will either have to be on hand to supervise recess in individual classrooms or everyone will have to go to the gym (sitting quietly, since you can’t have 150 kids running around one gym at one time) and PE classes will have to be held in the classrooms. That’s just reality. Hopefully the days the kids get to run around outside will make up for all the days they have to be inside just sitting and maybe reading. (It’d be nice if kids could have recess in the classroom, playing games, but the sheer number of staff required to supervise won’t allow it. You can have 3 staff members supervising 200 kids in a gym, but you have to have nearly a 1:30 ratio in classrooms) Again, I don’t think this is a good thing, but it appears as if sacrifices will have to be made.

  I am on the fence about giving less homework or not. If we reduce homework, then we haven’t really added much learning time. We’ve just changed when it is happening and who is doing the teaching. Plus with the demands of Common Core, everything is being amped up quite a bit. My admin said that it is expected that less than 20% of CPS will meet the standards for passing once that test kicks in full gear. So, I actually think it is possible more homework could happen instead of less, once CC hits the fan.

• 185. anonymous  |  January 30, 2012 at 8:39 am

  http://www.change.org/petitions/chicago-public-schools-board-of-education-exempt-northside-college-prep-high-school-from-the-longer-day-requirement

  North Side College Prep’s online petition has 1,800+ signatures this morning of parents who don’t want a long day, long year.

  Many good comments from parents, too.

• 186. HPMom  |  February 1, 2012 at 6:36 pm

  At Ray, our neighborhood school, we have always had 2 recesses (which we have renamed Brain Boost this year). In general, Brain Boost is scheduled to take place before core subjects like Math, etc. since exercise helps increase your ability to better focus and absorb classwork. If weather is bad, kids dance in the auditorium or gym (this is not happening 30-50% of the time- I can only think of a handful of times that kids stayed inside so far this year). There is no sitting around inside. We have parent volunteers who help supervise during these times but teachers supervise too. Also, Brain Boost CAN NOT be taken away from a child as a punishment- showing how much the school values it’s benefits.

  If the school day increases to 7.5 hours- our Principle, Dr. Beckwith (who is fabulous!), is proposing to have gym 5 days a week for 30 min. The remaining time would go to core subjects. We currently have gym once a week. Our school day at the moment is from 9:00-3:30pm- likely it would increase to 8:00-3:30pm.

• 187. Anonymous  |  February 1, 2012 at 9:01 pm

  Except for the overemphasis on reading and math — which will be a grind –daily gym sounds great for the schools that now have adequate facilities like gym, libraries and playgrounds, and air conditioning for when school starts August 17.

  CPs is in a big hurry to push this through and doesn’t have time to make upgrades to facililties.

  Lucky you.

• 188. HS Mom  |  February 1, 2012 at 9:18 pm

  @186 Thanks for letting us know what is happening at your school. Many parents here tend to be focused on selective schools and are interested in hearing about the good things that are happening in the neighborhood schools. Sounds like a great “go plan”.

• 189. Anonymous  |  February 1, 2012 at 9:34 pm

  Who cares about the neighborhood schools that don’t have what they need?

• 190. CPSstudent  |  February 3, 2012 at 9:38 pm

  1) Longer day is ok, but what is NOT ok is my teachers not being compensated. That MUST change. Being a teacher is a difficult and EXPENSIVE job. Not to mention demanding. If you will make them work longer, at least provide them with the resources needed to implement this new “extra instructional time” that is oh so talked about. If they strike, I will fully support my teachers…extra school days into July and all!
  2)CPS says to the media they want “extra instructional time” in core subjects but they are telling schools that they CANNOT add extra minutes to each period for extra instructional time in these core subjects. Does that make sense to you? Not to mention the idea for a study hall has ALSO been rejected.
  3)CPS says this extra time CANNOT be graded…therefore a new period will be added where I will not be given a grade…hmmm well that tells me that I don’t have to go, because it wont affect my grade in any way, and plus I’m not learning anything. And in a grade and test score driven society, I see no problem with people ditching this class if we will only be wasting it. I can assure you that no one will take it seriously. Criticize what you will, call us lazy, say that this is what is wrong with today’s students, but it is the harsh truth.
  4)CPS is taking away Division/Homeroom/Advisory. You do not know how IMPORTANT this 15 min period is. My school scheduling system is HIGHLY organized by our Divisions and it has and still is an effective system. But they felt the need to remove it. How else will these standardized tests the love be organized? How will we receive our important information? All important things overlooked by this board who is calling the shots.
  5)Every effective proposal my school has put down has been rejected without reason. They just say NO. How is this cooperating with CPS schools to help make this a smooth transition?

  As a CPS High school student (I attend Lane Tech College Prep, a high performing school), I feel the need to let my voice be heard. I’m pretty sure that they would never release ANY of this into the public media because it would make them look bad. But it is the truth. Students at my school are very well informed and are not happy with the changes taking place. I do believe that the case is different for elementary schools, but I am speaking from a High School perspective.

• 191. @185  |  February 4, 2012 at 12:28 am

  Sign this petition on line so that ALL schools might have a 6.% hour day http://sixpointfivetothrive.org/
  Not just one school…

• 192. Janina  |  February 4, 2012 at 12:30 am

  Most importantly, teachers do get a decent pay. Check out the CPS website to see what your teachers at your school are making. http://www.cps.edu/About_CPS/At-a-glance/Documents/EmployeePositionRoster_08_01_11.pdf The pay info is public information under “About CPS/ stats and facts”. The pay is not little in comparison to what a lot of us are making. Our Kindergarten teacher with BS is making $60,000 for 6 hours of “instruction”. Also, as you know teachers get plenty of vacation and holidays and sick days (will accrue, not expire ever, and will be paid at future salaries when cashed in). Most of all, they can retire at 55 years of age with full benefits at their latest salary indexed for inflation. How many of us have pension these days? How many of us can retire at 55? How many of us can carry sick days until we choose to cash them in at the latest salary? How many of us enjoy so many days off/year? How many of us work 6 hours a day? So, I am really tired of hearing about teachers not being paid enough. I used to work 12 hour work days until I had children. I had 2 weeks vacation and very little holidays. My 401K goes up and down in value and my social security keeps on falling down in value. I could go on and on but you get the picture. I do not feel sorry for the teachers. The focus should be on students and they are the ones to fight for. I would like our kids to be challenged and they are not. My kiddo is an advanced learner at home and public school is mostly a review for us. We are a number xx in the class. My kid teacher tells me he is an excellent student but she does not know his personality. I cannot get my selective enrollment school to challenge my kid because they do not have the time to provide an individual attention in classrooms of 28-35 kids. So, he is to stay in the ranks and do work that is easy and a review for him. He is learning little to justify the current 6 day plus 2.5 hours total daily commute. So, we need all local schools to be successful and stop the busing. We need smaller classroom sizes, normal gym sizes, cafeterias ( no eating at the desk) and playgrounds. We need rich after-school programs. We need differentiated instruction. Every kid should have the choice to test out of work that he already knows.

• 193. anonymous  |  February 4, 2012 at 2:23 am

  “CPS says to the media they want “extra instructional time” in core subjects but they are telling schools that they CANNOT add extra minutes to each period for extra instructional time in these core subjects. Does that make sense to you? Not to mention the idea for a study hall has ALSO been rejected. ”

  You are right to point up the glaring inconsistencies in CPS’s stories about what the long day /year will entail.

  so if you can’t add min. to core subjects, but ther is no funding for music, art, foreign language and computers, how can CPS add more instructinal min. to the day?

  Through Rocketship — the computer (or tablet, not sure) program. Google Rocketship and you’ll see they require two 50 min. session a day for elementary school kids.

  Comes to just about the 105 min. that CPS wants to add to the day, doesn’t it?

  We swap teachers for classroom monitors, have large class sizes and stick the kids in front of a screen.

  Show me the picket line.

• 194. CPSmommy  |  February 5, 2012 at 2:21 pm

  To Janina: From your earlier post: “The pay info is public information under About CPS/ stats and facts”. The pay is not little in comparison to what a lot of us are making. Our Kindergarten teacher with BS is making $60,000 for 6 hours of “instruction”.

  Another blogger provided the following information regarding the HUD definition of low income in Illinois (FY 2012). They define it as $57700 for a family of 4. See page 2 using the attached link.

  http://www.huduser.org/portal/datasets/il/il12/State_Incomelimits_Report.pdf

  I am a big believer of “you get what you pay for.” I am sorry but I cannot agree with anyone who wants CPS to pay teachers who “only” have a BA below HUD’s definition of poverty. Further, in my 7 years of being a parent in CPS, I have not encountered a single teacher that I felt was “only” working 6 hours a day. I get emails well into the evening and have had metings at all times to accomodate my work schedule. I do not believe their pay should be based solely on “face time” with students.

• 195. CPSDepressed  |  February 5, 2012 at 2:37 pm

  You know what? All the debate about income is beside the point. Salaries are determined by market supply and demand. If a stable job with a pension, health insurance, summers off, and a $60,000 salary is too little for someone with a BS to make, then he or she should take a job that pays more.

  In fact, there is a surplus of teachers right now. There is not a surplus of excellent teachers, but teacher quality is off the table. Some teachers deserve more than they make, and others should not be teaching.

• 196. HS Mom  |  February 5, 2012 at 2:55 pm

  @195 Thank you! I’m sorry but students asking for teachers to be paid more is not appropriate.

• 197. Joel  |  February 5, 2012 at 3:37 pm

  It is quite sad that the CPS has decided we can’t lengthen the periods of core instruction. As an AP Language and Composition teacher, I would absolutely love having a 90-minute block to work with them; I’d also like that amount to work with my severely behind freshmen, many of whom are reading 3-4 grade levels below 9th. Most teachers I know would give anything to have more time with their students. Most teachers I know would also NOT prefer to have to teach another course on how to behave like a normal human being (this seems to be the aim of the 9th grade additional “class” that will be added to our school next year).
  Thanks CPS! You always know best.

• 198. anonymous  |  February 5, 2012 at 5:31 pm

  Joel, would you indicate where you teach? CPS denied your plan for the longer day to increase minutes in AP Language and Comp to wrok with kids who red 3 adn 4 years below grade level?

  Can you explain the 9th grade add’l class that CPS has mandated your school teach?

  Is it an online class?

• 199. anonymous  |  February 5, 2012 at 5:35 pm

  190 — cps student. Thank you very much for giving us your views. Your opinions are important and should be considered in this debate because you are the ones for whom everyone should be working.
  So never mind HS Mom!

• 200. HS Mom  |  February 5, 2012 at 10:49 pm

  190 – yes, apologize. I shouldn’t have said that out loud.

• 201. anonymous  |  February 5, 2012 at 11:38 pm

  CPS Student, you made many excellent points. Your analysis of CPS’ mishandling of this long day / year initiative is spot on.

  HS Mom — as you imply that your only mistake was to express your opinion in public, your apology to this student lacks sincerity.

• 202. anonymouseteacher  |  February 6, 2012 at 9:50 pm

  Janina, I am sorry your child’s teacher isn’t differentiating for him. It is very difficult with such large class sizes. I am not aware of your work situation, but do you have time to volunteer? Maybe you already do and I know not everyone has time. I also teach Kindergarten and now that I have a few parents who generously donate a few hours a week to the classroom, I have been able to differentiate quite a bit more for all my students both inside and outside the school day. It has also helped my 12 hour work days to shrink to a more manageable 10-11 hour days. I am so grateful for those parent volunteers. Maybe your child’s teacher could reap a similar benefit?

• 203. foureyes  |  February 7, 2012 at 5:26 pm

  Please bear in mind that with those salaries that you look at on the CPS site (or champion.org) that ALL that money is not salary…it is money put toward pension…and to which the teacher actually does not have access or a decision how to utilize. That kindergarten teacher is probably actually making a good 10,000 less which is actually his/her pay.

  CPS teachers do not receive Social Security. They cannot not.

  With regard to sick days….teachers do not have paid for maternity leave nor sick leave and so many teachers save up sick days in order to support themselves…or they will try to delay necessary surgery or try to plan to have their baby in the summer – and do the best they can with deferred pay.

  When a teacher is ill – it costs the school more. The teacher does get paid…but CPS must also pay for a sub.
  A teacher is cursed and looked upon badly if he/she is out of the school too much. (It can be and is put on an evaluation). Schools do not want teachers out of school. It is better for the students and the teachers to have continuity in their schedules. The possibility to save up sick days is meant, in part, as in incentive to reduce absenteeism. (there are schools were the morale is so low and the problems so great that this really IS an issue) Most teachers really don’t like to take sick days. It is very difficult to come back into the classroom as the rhythm is interupted.

  with regard to the longer school day…I second what Joel is stating. I teach at a select enrollment H.S. We are not going to be permitted to add on instructional time to Core subjects nor utilize the time as a study hall/tutor time. The ‘direction’ that they have given us is very vague….and I think that that vague is intentional. I do believe it is meant to induce chaos and confusion.

  I am no stranger to the longer school day. I regularly interact/tutor/mentor students for at least an extra hour a day. My workweek…by no means is a tidy 35 hour week…During the school year…it is more like 50-80 hours (depending on what is happening). I use sick days when I am really sick..and I have to actually use them to catch up on grading. I go into school during ‘vacation’ and I work during the summer (on lesson plans/curriculm/professional education necessary to keep my teaching certificate).

• 204. foureyes  |  February 7, 2012 at 5:27 pm

  they cannot receive Social Security…not they cannot not…
  sorry double negation was not intended.

• 205. anonymous  |  February 7, 2012 at 5:45 pm

  Dear 4-i’s,
  I hear you. I have to say one of my pet peeves is when the BGA, Sun Times &/or Dave Savini runs an inflammatory story about sick day pay-outs going to the political elites of the city or county — then uses a broad brush to tar teachers!!

  Duncan got $53,000. He never taught a class in his life. His salary was always six figures. Why should he get benefits intended for teachers who are paid less than their counterparts in the private sector? Who don’t get paid maternity leave? Who have to bank their sick days to cover extended illnesses like cancer?

  That is where the abuse is — with the senior managers who should not get any union benefits. They are the ones who are trying to bust the unions, yet they get to keep outrageous benefits!

  This kind of “journalism” is all heat, no light. No one wants to sit down and negotiate the solution, b/c the mayor came out with a big bang in the media. Chicagoans are tired of his combative approach to everyone — libraries, mental health clinics, schools. These are important to our neighborhoods. Our neighbors work there or use those services. We don’t want the bashing to continue.

• 206. Goodbye to track e?  |  February 7, 2012 at 7:24 pm

  I have been hearing rumblings that the track e schedule is no longer on the table with the new longer day?
  I am relieved if it is true that our kids will have a normal schedule with the additional days added at the end of August. Cant wait for the CTU negotiations to begin

• 207. Chris  |  February 8, 2012 at 2:12 pm

  “Another blogger provided the following information regarding the HUD definition of low income in Illinois (FY 2012). They define it as $57700 for a family of 4″

  It’s actually $60,650 in Cook County. And at that income, the “low income” family would get the right to pay about $1500/month to live in some sort of subsidized housing. Don’t know many making $60,000 and with a family of 4 who would consider that a good option.

  “Please bear in mind that with those salaries that you look at on the CPS site (or champion.org) that ALL that money is not salary…it is money put toward pension”

  (not an attack, just the flipside) As is *every* private sector worker. A private sector worker with a stated salary of $60,000, pays 7.65% for ss and medicare, so it’s really $55,430. vs. 9% for the teacher, or $54,600.

  Per the (apparently pro-pension) faq here: http://www.ctpf.org/current_news/MYTHBUSTERS.pdf a “typical” (my word) CPS teacher retires with 28 years of work and gets $42,000 in (first year?) pension pay. Someone collecting social security based on a current salary of $60,000, retiring this year at 65 (and presumably with **40** years of work in) would expect about $17,000 in social security. To bridge the gap of $25,000 at a reasonable asset draw of 4%, that retiree would have to have $625,000 in an retirement account–AFTER accounting for the taxable withdrawals, so, more realistically, it’s probably $750,000 or more in that account.

  Assume that this now 65 year old had been methodically saving for that whole 40 years, the current difference of $1200/year (54,600-55,430, rounded), and had done reasonably well with his investments the whole time and averaged 9%. How much would he have? $468,000–or enough, pre-tax, to safely have $35,000 in retirement income, with only COLA and minimal interest in his now-risk-free invested principal to bump it up. So, you say, $100/month isn’t a big deal to put into a retirement account when you make $5000/month–sure, fair enough. But how much did our man make in 1971, when he started working? $60,000 is about twice the current median income for men; let’s assume he was lucky enough to make twice the median income back in ’71 (highly unlikely)–that would have been about $13,000. So, about 10% of his gross pay would have been going into a retirement account, on top of the 5.2% he’d have been paying for ss and medicare. That sounds less easy to manage, and being short in those early years is *extremely* hard to make up in the later years. And, to hit the $750,000 target, the level investment was about $225/month–or *over* 20% of the (unreasonably high) starting salary in 1971. For a private sector worker making about the same amount of salary as a teacher, without a company pension, it’s been *extraordinarily* difficult to save enough to match the teacher’s pension beneifits, and that is assuming a 40% longer working career (40 years v 28).

  So, when talking about how teachers don’t make out so well on the pension front, keep in mind that it has been much, much better than a similarly paid person in the private sector without any pension.

  however, flipping back, everyone else needs to remember that, one way or another, it is likely that *currrent*, less senior teachers are not going to see the same sort of pension benefits.

• 208. anonymouseteacher  |  February 8, 2012 at 11:09 pm

  Chris, you seem to be a bit of a retirement savings wonk. I typically spend about 2K on my classroom each year unreimbursed. If I saved that money from the age of 22 until the age of 62, how much would I have for retirement at a typical interest rate?

  I also wonder if the “typical” CPS teacher only works about 28 years before retirement because so many of us are women who, more often than men, take several years off to raise children? I started teaching when I was 22 and will likely teach until I am at least 70, but nearly 8 of those years was spent as a sahm. As well, like many teachers, I spent 7 years in other districts before coming to CPS and none of those years count towards my pension with CPS. Do you happen to know if the average worker who spends 40 years working before retirement that you mention, is that out of all workers (including men who usually do not take off years to raise kids) or is it comparing them to a comparable sample such as women who take time off?

  And as for this HUD definition of 56K a year being low income, that’s baloney. My family owned a condo, a car and lived quite comfortably on less than that amount of money for a long time. 20K for a family of 4 is low income, not 56K.

• 209. Chris  |  February 9, 2012 at 2:32 pm

  anonymouse: “If I saved that money from the age of 22 until the age of 62, how much would I have for retirement at a typical interest rate? ”

  What do you want to use as “typical”? 100% at (I think unrepeatable) 1970-2010 annual return on a broad stock index? Or CDs? Or something in-between? At 8% (aggressive, imo, going forward), $2k/year for 40 years would be about $500,000. At 3% (very conservative), about $150,000.

  anonymouse: “I also wonder if the “typical” CPS teacher only works about 28 years before retirement because so many of us are women who, more often than men, take several years off to raise children?”

  Dunno. It was from the link, and they’re (again, apparently) pro-teacher pension, so I think it’s reasonable to think they used stats slanted to make the pension look relatively small. Not that anything is incorrect, just that they want to present a case that makes a good comparison. Maybe there is a mjor difference b/t “average” (which is pretty limited) and “typical” (which is, in my thinking, sort of a mush of average and some mode-like concept–that we should expect that there are lots of people clustered around “typical”, where average could just be two extremes, with no one actually similar to the “average”) in thios particular situation.

• 210. Chris  |  February 9, 2012 at 2:47 pm

  anonymouse: “Do you happen to know if the average worker who spends 40 years working before retirement that you mention”

  No idea; I was simply working backward from a full-SS retirement age of 65, to a starting full-time employment at 25–which might actually be late, for a typical, 65 this year, earning $60k at 65, worker. From direct experience, if I continue working until 65, I will have 41 years of full time work, plus probably an aggregate of another FTE year (or slightly more) of part-time and summer work, and I took time off for grad school.

  anonymouse: “And as for this HUD definition of 56K a year being low income, that’s baloney.”

  It’s set by federal law/regulation as 80% of area median household income. And it’s a qualifying standard for subsidized housing. Then, if you get your Section 8 voucher, or otherwise get into public housing, you get to pay 30% of your gross income, after some deductions for family size, etc, as your rent. So, for the family of 4 with $60k income–qualifying as HUD-low-income in Cook County, unless they have applicable childcare and/or medical deductions, they’d pay about $1500/month in rent–and very, very few people are going to do that.

  It’s just a threshold for basic qualification for housing assistance. I agree that citing for any other purpose is pretty much baloney.

• 211. foureyes  |  February 9, 2012 at 6:22 pm

  “It’s difficult for Chicago teachers to impart the knowledge and skills their students require when our children spend less time in the classroom than just about anywhere else in the nation.” – Mayor Rahm Emanuel, campaign Education Address, Dec. 10, 2010

  This is from the CPS website….
  Now…this implies that Rahm wants teachers to teach knowledge and skills. Presumably this would be in the teacher’s area of expertise and an area in which the teacher is certified.
  Being a HS teacher I teach a specific subject matter. From what news we have gotten at our school from CPS they don’t want us to add on to our class time…nor use it for tutoring in our subject matter. (Which is odd…because the information on their website states that they WILL permit us to add time to classes…HUH? That is NOT the message that we have received at our school)…
  We only understand, that the extra time is to be ‘enrichment’…and we have been give *very little direction*. What is this ‘enrichment’ that CPS wants us to ‘teach’? How can we verify that whatever the subject matter (during this ‘enrichment’) being taught has purpose and reason? Moreover, we must be sure that the teacher is truly able to teach that subject. Is there a subject matter called ‘Enrichment’? Last time I checked it is not an area that ISBE covers.
  Now…enrichment…in the classroom should happen every day – In the context of the lessons that are taught to the students. I am my students’ teacher of Subject Matter ‘X’. But I am also a role model and an adult. When they ask questions – I answer them…or I get them to answer those questions for themselves. I want students to learn about SubjectMatter’X’, but I also want them to learn about life and learn to think for themselves. We do not want robots of a TestAngstWorld. The focus on testing (which in recent revelations of both Obama/Duncan/and the Superintendent of Schools in Texas) is out of touch and is being criticized. (Thank Goodness!) I think some powers that be are starting to realize that this test driven society in schools IS a problem. (Thankfully my school has – thus far- made the AYP which eludes a vast majority of schools in the State and Nation)
  With regard to the ‘enrichment’ periods…which are supposedly NOT to be graded….CPS student (#190) brings up our biggest fear…that students won’t take it seriously. Why are we wasting our time if the students won’t take it seriously? At Lane…where CPSstudent hails from…I know that many kids will budget their time to concentrate on classes that ‘matter.’ If students do not see a reason of importance for their ‘class’…they will not take it seriously. We will risk real issues with attendance (this was an issue with a similar ‘enrichment experiment’ that CPS implemented some years ago). Veteran teachers tell me that during this ‘enrichment period’ the students did not come and that it was a huge headache. This was at a Select Admission school. What will happen at some of the neighborhood schools?
  If we are asking anybody to spend more time in school…shouldn’t it be for PURPOSE?
  Imparting knowledge…shouldn’t this be done with the idea of purpose?
  Every bit of feedback we have gotten back on this from CPS has given us nothing which points to purpose and reason….it only yields chaos and confusion. What REALLY does CPS want?
  They want confusion – smoke and mirrors – to hide the real issues going on.
  My goal, as a teacher, is to give students what they need to improve and learn. CPS student – #190 wants to learn and wants purpose and wants reason. I thank the student for his/her honesty and perspective. This student is telling it ‘like it is.’

• 212. another cps mom  |  February 9, 2012 at 9:40 pm

  Ah, you’ve hit the nail on the head. The emperor has no clothes.

• 213. anonymous  |  February 9, 2012 at 11:01 pm

  211 — you’ll want to read this.

  http://www.thenation.com/article/164651/how-online-learning-companies-bought-americas-schools

• 214. mom2  |  February 9, 2012 at 11:39 pm

  foureyes – I keep hearing these comments that CPS is telling you that you cannot just add on 5 or 6 minutes to current classes or just add a study hall and be done. But I haven’t seen something in writing from CPS saying all the things you mention – such as it must be enrichment, but not for a grade, etc. Where is this in writing? Do principal’s have a memo that isn’t being shared with parents?

  If it must be a separate enrichment class for no grade, that doesn’t mean it can’t be pass/fail and required. If attendance is taken every day and kids don’t show up 3 times without a valid excuse (sick, etc.), then they fail. This is simple. You don’t have to allow kids to just not show up. Once they see that and they find value in this class, this particular concern goes away.

  Make the class valuable – ACT prep for juniors, learning about various careers and college majors for seniors (with guest speakers from various companies, etc.), learning about the stock market, insurance, credit cards, whatever… Things that matter and it could be great. If teachers get behind this instead of constantly complaining, maybe there could be some good to come out of this. I understand the complaining because of lack of direction from CPS, but I’m tired of hearing about it. Let’s make it work!

• 215. RL Julia  |  February 10, 2012 at 10:48 am

  I am with foureyes. Why not just make the classes longer? I don’t want my kid in school for extra time for some sort of ill defined enrichment – I want the extra time to be used for a double period of science (so they can do labs) or more time in English (so they can get more feedback on their writing or learn to discuss a story). What seems to be proposed is that schools are simply supposed to be keeping kids off the streets more 90- extra minutes- not actually teaching them more – of course, teaching them more might cost more money – which of course no one has. So now school is longer so the day is sort of diluted…..

• 216. HS Mom  |  February 10, 2012 at 11:29 am

  @215 for high schools the extra time is 22 to 35 mins per day. Schools with block schedules do have 90 blocks of time for subjects. Block scheduling is voted on by the teachers. With the small addition of time, some schools prefer block to adding 5 minutes to each class which won’t really accomplish added value.

• 217. RL Julia  |  February 10, 2012 at 12:00 pm

  I was really just thinking elementary school schedules but o.k. I still would take a class that was five minutes longer than have my kid sit in some ill-defined “enrichment” class for 60.
  http://www.cps.edu/News/Press_releases/Pages/01_12_2012_PR1.aspx – these seem to be at least some of the guidelines.

  Oh and don’t forget all this needs to align with the new national common core standards that are being rolled out next year as well.

• 218. anonymous  |  February 10, 2012 at 12:44 pm

  216 — Help me to understand this?
  I thought the added time was 36 min., plus the 10 min that went to advisories or homeroom, for a total of another 46 min. each day.

  Also, high schools with once-a-week seminar days, like Lindblom, WP, NSCP, will add 3 hours to that day, lus the 46 min. to four other days.

• 219. Joel  |  February 10, 2012 at 12:52 pm

  @214: Teachers never see anything in writing. We are instructed by the administration, who takes their orders from the network, who takes their orders from “downtown.” But needless to say, there is NO possibility of adding extra time to classes. This was the first thing that was told to us in our meeting about what we were to develop as new class for this time. I’ll try to get the PP of what each of our classes is going to be; to be honest, now that I’m on my way out, I simply could care less. I spend my time teaching the hell out of my kids and no longer worry about any of the other nonsense. It’s been liberating to say the least.

• 220. anonymous  |  February 10, 2012 at 1:15 pm

  219 — There is a good reason that Central Office will not put anything in writing. There is a good reason that C.O. won’t allow schools to and instructional time to core subjects.

  They want the additional time — 100 min in elementary school — for two 50 min. sessions of online learning. Much larger classes. Teachers replaced with non-union classroom monitors — a patronage army.

• 221. HS Mom  |  February 10, 2012 at 1:17 pm

  I’m talking actual time that the student is in school. Going to a 7.5 hour day means changing from say an 8 to 3 schedule to 8 to 3:30. Some schools like NSP already have a longer day. Also Whitney has a 7.5 day with a 7 class schedule (there is an optional 6 class schedule). Other schools are now going block schedule to make the most of a 7.5 hour day. With 7 classes this creates 1 block of time for tutoring/homework/school special events/test prep/college knowledge – things that already exist and are now booked as part of the school day. Yes, this does remove homeroom as mentioned in the link @ 217. I’m not sure why it can be done at some schools and not at others – maybe it’s in the packaging.

• 222. Chris  |  February 10, 2012 at 1:42 pm

  “Teachers replaced with non-union classroom monitors — a patronage army.”

  If they aren’t union, as opposed to non-CTU, then they won’t be a very effective patronage army–minimum wage workers aren’t too likely to spend their non-work time campaigning.

• 223. wh mom  |  February 10, 2012 at 8:11 pm

  @221~ WY does not have a 7.5 hour school day. Most students attend 6 classes with an option of a 7th if you have a gpa of 3.5. It’s not an 7 classes with an OPTION of 6. Obviously your child doesn’t go to WY.

  7.5 hour school day is waaaay 2 long. This isn’t about our kids, it’s about their pockets. Say no to 7.5!!!

• 224. HS Mom  |  February 12, 2012 at 3:29 pm

  No I don’t go to WY – I have been told by friends with 7 classes that they go to school for 7.5 hours. They told me that freshman take 6 classes but that they have to add a class next year. I’m sure you know better. Most students have less than 3.5 GPA? Really?

• 225. Chris  |  February 13, 2012 at 11:49 am

  “This isn’t about our kids, it’s about their pockets.”

  Whose pockets? Make a convincing (ok, I’ll settle for plausible) case that someone is going to make money on the longer day. Start with “where’s the money coming from?”.

• 226. anonymous  |  February 13, 2012 at 11:51 am

  From the salaries of fired teachers.

• 227. Chris  |  February 13, 2012 at 11:58 am

  “From the salaries of fired teachers.”

  And … who “pockets” that money? Last I checked, CPS isn’t a dividend paying entity. Seems like, to the extent pockets are lined, it’s the property owners of Chicago *keeping* it in their pockets.

• 228. anonymous  |  February 13, 2012 at 12:29 pm

  And yes, Virginia, there is a Santa.

• 229. RL Julia  |  February 13, 2012 at 12:37 pm

  I am with Chris, last time I checked pretty, the state was pretty much bust and owed CPS quite a chunk of change (they might have paid up). This isn’t about making money – it was about not owing quite so much. If you want to talk about people lining their pockets with governmental gold, I would look at developers or construction contracts or of course, on the federal level – financial institutions. That’s where the big bucks are.

• 230. anonymous  |  February 13, 2012 at 1:12 pm

  Here’s Rocketship’s financial records, etc. Check it out. from $26 million to $48 million in assets from 2010 to 2011, if I am reading it right.

  http://rsed.org/index.php?page=board-agendas-financials

• 231. anonymous  |  February 13, 2012 at 1:18 pm

  211 — four eyes — the Rocketship model precludes your plan for enrichment or remediation.

• 232. anonymous  |  February 13, 2012 at 1:45 pm

  When Stand for Children pushed through IL SB 7, the plan to implement a Rocketship model — 7.5 hour school day, 180-day school year, online learning for 100 minutes a day, fewer teachers needed — was in the works.

  Stand for Children, Illinois, is a philanthropic front group funded by a group of billionaire business people — Crownes, Griffins, Pritzkers, Zells, among others — who think that public education tax dollars are there to serve their business interests. Emanuel is their mayor.

  PR firms like Resolute Consulting serve the mayor’s education agenda.

  They create opportunities to make a profit off the testing, the technology and the curricula.

  Wall Street calls these companies EOMs.

• 233. Mia  |  February 13, 2012 at 3:20 pm

  @232. True, sad, but true.

• 234. Chris  |  February 13, 2012 at 3:23 pm

  ” the plan to implement a Rocketship model — 7.5 hour school day, 180-day school year, online learning for 100 minutes a day, fewer teachers needed — was in the works.”

  So, you’re really contending that the city will turn over *every* school to a charter operator?

• 235. Chris  |  February 13, 2012 at 3:30 pm

  ps: WHAT is the alternative? Status quo is broken. No change = no hope.

  And “give the schools more money” is not a real proposal.

• 236. Another Mom  |  February 13, 2012 at 5:09 pm

  Deal with poverty and its culture, probably.

• 237. anonymouseteacher  |  February 13, 2012 at 6:38 pm

  I was actually reading some very good literature today written by some of the leading reading researchers on how to help kids who are struggling. There are some terrific things out there that can be done to help kids who don’t get the help they should at home. While I think that kids with a great school and support at home will ALWAYS out achieve kids with a great school and none/little support at home, I also believe kids with a great school can and will out achieve kids with a poor one (all other things being equal).

  One of the things the author was talking about was when teachers are required to use a basal (the same big reading book for every kid in the class for most of the reading instruction–terrible, terrible pedagogy), those teachers can mitigate the damage and increase achievement through repeated readings and story maps to increase fluency and comprehension. If kids also do a lot of paired reading, and practice the stories at home, even if the book was originally too hard for the students, they made roughly 1.8 years of gains in reading just through this simple technique. All kids should have the opportunity to read books at their level, meeting with the teacher a few times a week in that small group to increase skills. But in schools where a stubborn principal won’t allow this, or leveled readers aren’t available (like many schools), this is another option.

  Don’t get me wrong. Poverty and other things that schools can’t control are HUGE issues that create very challenging obstacles. But there are some things we teachers and schools can do within what we currently have. I am actually bringing the part of the chapter I was referring to my principal tomorrow as a suggestion for one of our professional development days. She’s pretty good at trying to shield us at least a little from the nonsense we have to do during those PD days. I’d love, for once, to spend part of that time talking about students and altering instruction to meet their needs.

• 238. Another CPS Mom  |  February 13, 2012 at 7:54 pm

  I don’t know much about charters, but I think the intentions in creating them are good. I see it as one of many strategies to try to reach students. I don’t think it’s fair to expect charters to show amazing results overnight or to compare their results to “average” CPS results since the “good” schools are included in the average. Nor do I think it’s fair to compare charters with poor-performing neighborhood schools who can’t have application processes, hold lotteries, or require open house attendance, etc. I do think it’s fair to compare the growth of students in charters to their pre-charter progress. Maybe the charters will do the value-added analysis that we’re hearing more about.

  For those who say the Mayor wants to privatize schools and make them all charter: While I can’t pretend to know the Mayor’s wants in this regard, this conclusion does not follow from other statements made in some of the posts above or elsewhere on this blog. For example, some poster(s) say that charters can, and do, cull students who then have to go back to their neighborhood schools. But the same posts complain that neighborhood schools have to accept everyone and cannot cull. How can the entire system, therefore, be privatized? It can’t, at least not without an amendment to the Illinois Constitution. Illinois guarantees the right to a free and appropriate education. There must be a public school for children to attend.

• 239. Anonymous  |  February 14, 2012 at 8:11 am

  UNO, the group that replaced the Hispanic Democratic Organization after the hired trucking scandal, has received $113 million from the state to build charter schools. It spent $47 million on one school — its UNO Soccer Academy, for fewer than 500 students.
  No city or state oversight on how it spends that money.

  (UNO has moved from the trucking business to the charter school business. Seems much more lucrative. Their schools’ results are mixed at best. But UNO’s predominance has foreclosed for many of its men and women the option of a CPS teaching career with union benefits.)

  However, the mayor can rely on the political support of the Hispanics in the city. That’s one result of mayoral control of our schools.

  There are many problems with charters, and we have explored them in previous posts, if you want to glance through them.

  The past December, a long-awaited research report on Chicago charters clearly showed that charters perform below the average for CPS schools.

  So CPS is shoveling millions of tax dollars to schools that cull students, get about 50% more in additional funding from private philanthropists like the Pritzkers, et al., don’t do well by children with special needs, and still most often underperform the CPS average school despite having a longer day already.

• 240. Anonymous  |  February 14, 2012 at 8:15 am

  From a blog by Mike Klonsky, De Paul U. Professor of Education

  Diane Ravitch

  Transferring control of public dollars to private hands is not reform. It is privatization. This strikes at the very heart of public education. — Montgomery Advertiser

  Council of Parent Attorneys and Advocates (COPAA)

  “It is not legally or morally acceptable that these so-called “schools of choice” that are concentrated in urban communities and supported with public funds, should be permitted to operate as segregated learning environments where students are more isolated by race, socioeconomic class, disability, and language than the public school district from which they were drawn.” — Schools Matter

• 241. Chris  |  February 14, 2012 at 12:53 pm

  “permitted to operate as segregated learning environments where students are more isolated by race, socioeconomic class, disability, and language than the public school district from which they were drawn”

  So, you oppose neighborhood schools? How do we accomplish a reduction of isolation by race and socioeconomic class, in the Chicago we have, without also letting go of neighborhood schools?

• 242. Teachtolearn  |  February 21, 2012 at 1:56 pm

  I am a teacher in CPS. Please read this if you are interested in hearing what it is like to be a CPS teacher and to learn how a teacher feels. Please read the whole thing before making a comments on it.

  Teaching in Chicago Public Schools is not exactly a top notch position, we choose to teach in areas that are extremely difficult. We should be rewarded with a descent middle class pay as we currently are. The reason most intelligent people don’t become teacher is the fact that there is not enough pay and many of them end up making 6 figures as most of my friends do. It is interesting that people don’t understand this. If we put more money into teachers salary, more well educated people will want to be teachers. Smarter teachers = smarter students. Also the more money we invest into the future of our children the less we will have to invest into all these socialist reforms and bailing out of people who have made poor decisions in their life. It would also mean less money into the prison system, as people who are more educated tend to go to jail less. It is also interesting to look that our country spends 4 times as much money on the average prisoner than they do on the education of the average child.

  I, along with many teacher, agree we need a longer school day at the elementary level. That school day should be equally raised across the board. High schools are increasing 46 minutes per day where as elementary schools are increasing 90. I agree a 45 minute longer school day would be an advantage, especially since CPS HAS ADDED A MANDATORY BREAKFAST DURING THE SCHOOL DAY about 3 months before they decided to extend the school day by 90 minutes. Breakfast had previously been before school. This worked fine for many schools to have breakfast before school started. Now this breakfast takes 15 minutes to 20 minutes AWAY FROM LEARNING FOR YOU CHILDREN. So as a teacher, many of us agree with a 30 minute longer school day to 45 minutes.

  With a 90 minute addition to the school day we would expect more pay, just as you would. Would you work 90 more minutes for free or look for a new job. Not to mention if you have taken the time to actually investigate instead of listening to the news, they want to LOWER OUR PAY, make us pay 50% more into our pension, make us pay more into our health care costs, and increase our time in the school by 90 minutes. (If you ever thought about it nice part of becoming a teacher was never the salary, it was we received good pensions and great health care while teaching). 90 minutes will also increase our out of class time because we will be grading even more.

  It is interesting that CPS still has not come out with a budget for this school year, they have not given us our contract raises, but they are “finding” money to give to schools who wanted to make the move to 90 more minutes earlier in the year (Brizzard was actually quoted that he said “we found money”). And they say they have the money to increase our school days but where? Where is this money? Our schools need more funding even if teachers do not get raises before we extend the school day by 90 minutes. Did you know over 100 of the 435 (approximate) elementary schools do not have a library? Do you know that most kids will never see either an art teacher or a music teacher? Do you know specialist teachers (PE, music, art, librarians, etc) in elementary school get only a $100 budget per year. That is equivalent to 4 new basketballs, one drum, maybe 8 books. Do you know that some PTA’s actually are buying student text books in areas that the school district has neglected? We also simply want more teachers. One of our classes has 35 kids and no one of our classrooms have more than 32 desks (due to room in a class). Our contract states no more than 24 in K-3rd grades and no more than 28 in 4th through 8th grades. Of the 19 classrooms in the school I work at only 6 meet less than 24 or 28 students per class. After reading all this tell me what needs to be done here? More time, or more money put into making each minute effective. Its not about quantity, its about quality. Any good coach or teacher will tell you that.

  As for time in the school and getting paid for hours we teach, not hours we grade homework. Almost every teacher brings homework to be graded home, stays after, or arrives at school early to take care of this. Some of you say we don’t work 8-9 hours a day like the average American. I can tell you most of our teachers either show up at 7 and leave around 3:30 (8.5 hours with only a 20 minute lunch break) or show up at our start time of 8:30 and leave around 4:30 to 5. I arrive 30-60 minutes before school every day and 60-90 minutes after school every day but Friday. I run programs at our school that I don’t even get paid for, such as our environmental club. So please don’t assume that we only work the stated 6.25 hours per day. Because for the average teacher that is not true, most work 8 or more hours per day. There are exceptions of course, and those people should be weeded out by CPS executives and principals. CPS can not blame us for doing a poor job of making sure teachers do their job. That is the job of CPS. Don’t say teachers fail, a teacher that is failing should be fired! CPS is in charge of its teachers and should take fault if they are doing a poor job. Any company in this world that is failing doesn’t blame its bottom, they blame its top. It falls to CEO’s (BRIZZARD) and the managers (PRINCIPALS) to make sure that our schools teachers are succeeding. And don’t say tenure keeps us. I have watched bad teachers with tenure fired. A good principal takes the time to do it. Tenure protects us to an extent yes, but a good principal who does the necessary work can have a bad teacher out in a year or at most 2. They just need to tell rate us every with a poor satisfactory rating and then there is a long process to get rid of a bad teacher. Yes it is a long process, but a good CEO and manager would take the time to get rid of something that is affecting their business profits and a good school system should take the time to get rid of a teacher that is failing its students.

  People also pick on specialists ie Physical Education Teachers, Librarians, and Music Teachers. Especially when considering merit based pay systems such as CPS is considering now. They say that they do less work. The specialists at our school see more than 500 students a week first of all. They know each kids name in our entire school. The PE teacher at our school is responsible for the sports program as well (WITHOUT PAY), they run 120 kids in the spring and fall sports and about 80 in the winter and do not GET PAID. The PE teacher is also in charge of patrol, honor guard (the people who drum and lead the pledge/star spangled banner, and a big brother big sister program. He is not paid a dime for anything that he runs and has the same prep time as every other teacher. He is considered an athletic director but is not paid any thing for it. Our librarian is responsible for teaching classes research and computer skills yet does not have enough books in the library (yet has won 2 grants of $2,000 or more) and has 7 computers that work. On top of that he is also in charge of all the students checking books in and out and keeping track of the books we have in the school and chasing down students that do not return them. He rarely gets a break as he lets kids come in during his prep time to check out books, and checks out books before and after school. Our music teacher runs many of the assemblies and is in charge of the school play. Has any one ever attempted to run a school play? I have assisted and the amount of work put into a production such as hers is immense. She does a great job and works her tail off during it. She is here an extra 20 hours a week for 10 weeks during the rehearsals and performances. She also runs a musical every year that is almost as intensive. Unfortunately our school only has a part time art teacher that teaches 15 classes per week and our 6th though 8th grade does not get to see her.

  Also do you know the school board is hand picked and not voted on, this is against your 14th amendment right as a parent. Almost every school board in the nation is elected. Take the time to fight the that. As I stated earlier a better top will mean a better school system. A top that is elected rather than appointed will also mean you as parents have a say in who is you CEO and I highly doubt you will elect someone who had such a low confidence vote at the previous school system he was in.

  People, please put more research into your statements before you speak about someones profession that you are not in. I do not talk about how the firefighters and police officers deserved to get screwed by King Rahm. And I do not believe you have the right to say anything until you are a teacher about teachers. With those of you who work longer hours than I do, well I used to work 14 hour days before I was a teacher and go to school. I still come home every day more exhausted now that I am a teacher then I did when I worked 14 hours a day( as a reference I am not a fat out of shape teacher complaining, I am triathlete).

  Don’t forget as a teacher, I want smaller class sizes for your children, I want more of the arts for each child, I want a full time nurse, a full time social worker, breakfast to be before school so it does not interrupt the school day. I want your kids to have more resources to learn with such as books, computers, projectors, and most importantly more teachers! Parents you should not be fighting us, you should be on our side. We want almost all the same things you want. These are things we need to get from CPS board.

  Parents and community PLEASE REMEMBER: we want your children to learn and succeed. We make sacrifices every day for YOUR children. We support YOUR children, we support the future of Chicago, and America. Please support us in supporting your children.

• 243. anonymous  |  February 21, 2012 at 2:26 pm

  Teachtolearn — thanks very much for your post.

  It’s sad to know that many great teachers are disheartened by new initiatives that are unfunded.

• 244. Mia  |  February 21, 2012 at 2:49 pm

  Thank you for sharing that post. Your experience mirrors much of what I hear from my children’s teachers and others in the education community. Adding 45 minutes, providing adequate time for lunch and recess makes great sense. An elected school board would be wonderful, too much power resides with our mayor. I’ve posted here many times that paying our teachers fairly will attract and retain the kind of people (like you clearly) that we want teaching our kids. That’s one of the things I dislike about charter schools (okay the list is getting longer all the time) but one of the main things I dislike is that they pay their teachers LESS than the union schools. That’s a move in the wrong direction (in my opinion anyway).

• 245. Teachtolearn  |  February 21, 2012 at 3:51 pm

  Something that i failed to mention is that at my school. We are preschool through 8th grade and we have 28 teachers including specialist teachers and special ed teachers. Of those 28 teachers, our 3 best teachers are looking to retire early so their pensions are not affected. Another 4 of us (all younger teacher with less than 10 years in CPS but more than 5) including myself are looking for new jobs in a school system that will care about its teachers and the work that we put into everyday to better their lives and the future of our country. That’s 25% of teachers at my school, think of this in 2 ways. One there will 25% new teachers at a school which can severely change the make up the school, I will admit for better or worse. Another thing is that of the 28 people on staff, 6 have their national board certificate and 4 of those 6 may be leaving. Of the 7 people who are leaving all but myself have a masters degree, and I am working on my masters degree.

  One more thing. We are the only school district in the nation that REQUIRES its teachers to live in Chicago. I am a single male. I don’t make enough money to own a home in any descent to great area of Chicago. I grew up in the city of Chicago in a bad area and do not wish to live in one just so I can afford a home. With the requirement to live in Chicago and the cost of living index to live in Chicago being one of the highest in the nation we deserve a descent pay. And we deserve a descent pension as if we are required to live in the city for 34 plus years our mortgages will probably be in the city as well. We don’t have the luxury of moving to a city with cheap housing and commuting in and out and how many people would want to move away from their home after retirement and spending so much money to live there.

  Thank you for people who have replied in a positive way in response to our struggle as teachers, and to anyone who has taken the time to realize our struggle even if they do not necessarily agree with it.

• 246. anonymous  |  February 21, 2012 at 4:52 pm

  I feel for you. And I want to leave the city, too, because of the Mayor’s dictatorial style of governing.

  My sister in law taught for 17 years in Englewood. She had a Master’s plus great experience, and every one of her kindergartners knew how to read, print and do math by the end of the year.

  The first grade teachers would compete for her students. But she ran out of there once Rahm came to town. I hear more and more that this is happening.

  If we lose good, experienced teachers, who will want to send their kids to CPS schools?

• 247. CPS Parent  |  February 22, 2012 at 9:55 am

  Students at my sons high school were informed of the final schedule to be submitted to CPS for the longer day next year. The schedule will be alternating block four days from 8 until 3:47 with one three period seminar day from 8:00 until 12:30 nine times per semester. The current schedule is similar but ends at 3:00 and 11:00 respectively. The last period of the day will be used for enrichment and tutoring. Clubs, teams, service projects, etc. can meet during this time. Students who qualify and rely on CPS bus service can now participate in clubs, teams, etc. Teachers who previously donated time for extracurriculars (CPS, currently, rarely pays) will be involved during paid hours. Students are pleased, this parent is as well.

• 248. Chris  |  February 22, 2012 at 10:15 am

  “Now this breakfast takes 15 minutes to 20 minutes AWAY FROM LEARNING FOR YOU CHILDREN.”

  Really, I had no idea [/sarcasm]. Every time I bring this up, either everyone here ignores it, or actually says “it doesn’t take away from instructional time at *our* school”.

  Seriously–does everyone not realize that, for most elem schools, the effective academic day is currently 5.5 hours?

• 249. Chris  |  February 22, 2012 at 10:17 am

  CPS Parent: “Students are pleased, this parent is as well.”

  That’s unpossible. The majority of commenters here say that NO parents are in favor of the 7.5 hour day. NONE. You must be a Rahm plant, paid out of some slushfund, to ride a bus to an internet cafe and post pro-”full day” hooie.

• 250. Joel  |  February 22, 2012 at 10:18 am

  @242
  Just to clarify one point you made:I don’t think that it is just paying teachers more money that is necessary. The standards for getting into a teacher education program have to be raised dramatically. It is appalling the number of alternative, online, and quickie teacher preparation programs that are out there.
  For example, if you can’t pass the Basic Skills test after two tries, you’re out. It’s a weed out. When I heard a fellow teacher telling me she needed 5 times to pass it, I wasn’t surprised. Her class was a shambles.
  We have been incredibly lax in who we allow to become a teacher, and it shows. I was practically laughed out of my department meeting when I said I was going to Northwestern for my master’s in literature; why, they asked, wouldn’t I just do an online program in 6 months? Look at the number of for-profit education programs that have sprung up in the past decade. You don’t see that in other countries.
  There’s a big part of your problem. Top SE high schools can pick the best candidates, but once you get below that, the pool is frighteningly shallow.
  I’ll teach again, but it will probably be when I go back to Europe.

• 251. Alcott High School info  |  February 22, 2012 at 10:29 am

  Chris 249 –

  Being in favor of the 7.5 day isn’t “unpossible” – I’m in favor of it as are all of my friends with kids in CPS. Every one single one and we all have kids several different schools both selective and neighborhood.

  And no, I’m no Rahm-ite, but I do like the fact that he’s making school changes quickly so that less kids are left to suffer in the current mess of a system.

• 252. CPSDepressed  |  February 22, 2012 at 10:32 am

  @250, thank you. We have allowed teacher education to be a joke in this country. It’s become the major for people who are afraid of math, and that’s just wrong.

• 253. Mia  |  February 22, 2012 at 10:44 am

  @251 – at my son’s school a survey was held an although nearly all the parents were in favor of a longer school day – they were not in favor of the 7.5 day, rather the modified (and to me more realisitic) 6.5 hour day. I agree change is needed, but making changes that fly in the face of statistics (see today’s report on the lack of success of the turnaround movement) just to make change “quickly” is equally bad. My problem with the current school board/Rahm is not that they have a vision (charters, turnarounds); it’s that they are unwilling to slow down and digest and assess the data from the new studies and then proceed with their plan as is, or make moficiations. Rather, they immediatley put the “spin” teams in motion and go forward – because being “right” about their initial vision seems to be more important than doing the RIGHT thing for the children of Chicago.

• 254. Chris  |  February 22, 2012 at 10:47 am

  Alcott HS info @ 251:

  Guess I needed to use my sarcasm tags in that one, too.

  Frightening, to me, that that could be taken seriously–shows the level of the discourse on the matter.

  FTR, I dunno if 7.5 hours is the right amount, but I know 5.75 is too short, and, having experience with the 6.5 hour (really 6.25, bc of breakfast) day, I think that at least 7 (with the 15 minutes of breakfast still in there) is the best answer–maybe 7.25 for elem, so 7 hours after breakfast, with younger grades getting more down time and older kids having more academic time.

• 255. Mia  |  February 22, 2012 at 10:55 am

  Chris- not sure how my child’s school did it, but they still serve breakfast before school in the cafeteria – no one in his class eats in the room. they start school promptly. For my daughter (different school) – there are breakfast bags in the hall outside her room, and if they grab one they eat it while the teacher is doing homeroom duties – no time lost.

  My son’s school moved to the 6.5 hour day this year – and it’s enough for me. I’m glad they did it, he has some additional instruction time, but also a full lunch and recess period – very, very important for these elementary aged kids. Now if you want to add music and art and more time with language, maybe I’d feel differently – but if it’s test prep and more of the core subjects,well, sorry I’m not up for that.

• 256. Chris  |  February 22, 2012 at 11:03 am

  “they eat it while the teacher is doing homeroom duties – no time lost”

  Have you actually witnessed this on multiple days, or is that just what the message is? Big fight about it at our school, and it *has* reduced instructional time–not that my kids care, it’s just additional free rerading time, but it cuts into the school day–AND we have a teacher here who agrees with my view of the breakfast interruption.

  “but if it’s test prep and more of the core subjects,well, sorry I’m not up for that.”

  Yeah, but–not really the test prep, but certainly core subjects–something like 80% of CPS would benefit from it. This is about a systemwide issue, not an issue at your schools or my school. Yes, the upshot may well be a ton of negative unintended consequences, but when you have knuckleheads like Jesse bleating about how closing schools is part of “educational apartheid” you can’t realistically make systemwide decisions that cater to the top 10% of the students.

• 257. Teachtolearn  |  February 22, 2012 at 3:19 pm

  246: I want to leave Illinois period, the whole state is corrupt and makes corrupt laws about education

  247: We will most likely not get paid, I have been told I would be paid for multiple things and never have been. And HS is becoming 46 minutes longer and I believe this would be a good number for elementary school as well.

  248 and 253 and 256 the topic of breakfast: Breakfast at my school does take away from educational time. It used to be our reading time, where students read for homeroom (17 minutes) every day of the year. This was free independent reading as well. Breakfast needs to be moved to before the day starts again. The clean up of it takes children away from reading time and class time, as at our school I started a recycling program to stop the waste of 300 milk cartons, 300 paper bags, etc. 2 students in each class clean up recycle, 2 in each class clean up garbage, 2 in each class bring the non used food items back to the cafeteria. If you put breakfast back where it belongs (before school) you are adding 15 minutes per day. We currently have 180 school days of which 170 (I’m not positive on this) students come to. With the plan to add 10 school days (which I agree with), take away to professional development days (I also agree with), and take away two holidays (I also agree with if they are holidays before ISAT) we will have 184 attendance days. Do the math 15 minutes more per day times 184 days = 46 extra hours per year. Divide 46 by 5.75 (actual school day) and you will receive 8 extra days of instructional time. Also realize Rahm and Brizzard purposely pushed breakfast into the day so teachers would complain about the time constraints of it. Leading to what we have now.

  249 Chris, please be part of the solution. Getting crazy about someones view point is not the way to do this. There are few who do believe in the 7.5 school day for elementary school. However, there are some, so please be mindful.

  250 I went to a state college in Illinois, the process to become a teacher is a joke, and multiple retakes is a joke. This is what I call the babying of America. Everyone has to have multiple chance to succeed. I believe this is not right! Like I said before in 242 you start at the root of a problem. Right now the root in CPS is the board not the teachers. The root of the problem in the bad teachers, is a bad system of allowing them to become teachers. Make becoming a teacher much more difficult, pay them more, and call it a day. There will still be bad apples, but I believe a lot less.

  251 I agree that HS should add 46 minutes and so should Elementary school. Do realize that kids in elementary school should have the right to be children as well. Many of our students in 5th-8th do homework when they get home as well. Kids should be able to go outside and play after school, after all they are kids!!!!! They should not be locked in school from 8-3:30 then go home and do homework until 5, then have to eat dinner, then go to bed at 8 or 9 like they should. Where does that leave them time to be children? Have us start the kids start at 8 still and have a 6.5 hours day with breakfast before the day to account for another 15 minutes of learning time. That means an extra hour per day. With the addition of the possible 14 days. That equals 184 extra hours or the equivalent of an extra 24 school days on the current schedule, plus the addition of 14 days. Now equivalent to 38 days more on the 5.75 hour system! I think that is more than enough if not too much. That is approximately 22% more learning time in a year. Enough said.

  253 Rolling from my above statement. In order for time to be added we can not just add time. We need to add time in some classes like Physical Education. Currently students at my school in K-5 have PE once per week at 45 minutes, though state law mandates it 5 days per week. Also in 6-8 they have 2 times per week. I think time needs to be added to Music, Art, Library, PE, and possibly add language classes as well. If these are not added then I believe there is little point to add more time in the day.

  To all of you I would also like you to take a minute to add what you think about merit based pay. I fundamentally want to agree with it, but due to all the external factors that we as teachers can not help. I do not believe it is fair. If you look at education studies only a small portion of student success comes from school and a smaller portion from teachers. Parenting is the largest influence and we can not make good parents ( I WISH ). And social influences are also a large percentage.

  I would like to thank everyone who has added comments to what I have written. I like to hear what people have to think.

• 258. CPS Parent  |  February 22, 2012 at 3:43 pm

  Regarding Chris at 249 he was being sarcastic. He makes good points in other posts.

  Regarding breakfast – if the day is longer, a 10min period could be added to the start of the day which would be dedicated to breakfast or reading for those who don’t need it. The kids who need breakfast the most are the least likely to show up before school starts.

• 259. Chris  |  February 22, 2012 at 4:00 pm

  CPS Parent @258: “The kids who need breakfast the most are the least likely to show up before school starts.”

  Totally agreed about that. Make it 15, make it after the tardy bell, and all of a sudden, that 7.5 hour day is only 7.25.

  @257: “Getting crazy about someones view point is not the way to do this.”

  As noted by me @254 and @258, I was getting crazy in the opposite direction because of SOOO many posters here (or just one very persistent person) claiming that NO ONE supports a 7.5 hour day. My view is that, given a binary choice of 5.75 or 7.5, 7.5 wins.

• 260. Chris  |  February 22, 2012 at 4:08 pm

  @257: “what you think about merit based pay. I fundamentally want to agree with it, but due to all the external factors that we as teachers can not help. I do not believe it is fair.”

  All depends on the index for determining “merit”, right? Can’t just be raw test scores, because then teachers at the “good” schools would get paid more merely for not screwing up “good” kids, while if it were purely on the increase in the scores, then the reverse could occur. And most of the rest of the possible ratings systems I have heard/read about get into squishy stuff that’s too open to politics and personal favoritism/enmity.

• 261. anonymous  |  February 22, 2012 at 4:33 pm

  There is no school district in the U.S. that mandates a 7.5 hour day.
  It is too extreme, especially for the youngest kids and for kids wiht special needs.

  Emanuel wants to push CPS to the longest day in the U.S. by far. His people on the Board and in communications and with Stand for Children just won’t admit that 7.5 hours is the longest day in the U.S.

  And who, besides gold old Chris here, says there are only 2 choices?

  Why not follow what works so well elsewhere, 6.5, the average in Illinois?

  That would add the time to the core subjects and let the parents have the time with their children that the 14th amendment protects.

  Posters here have the same right to explain their views as you do.

• 262. Uptown Mama  |  February 22, 2012 at 4:39 pm

  @242 – good post. One clarification: teachers (at least elementary) are currently paid for a 6.5 hour day. Their day will be 60 minutes longer, not 90 minutes longer. If teachers are at a school that is currently 5 hrs and 45 min long, it’s because that school’s staff has voted to take (paid) lunch at the end of the day. So, while those teachers will have their school day lengthened by 90 minutes, they’re already paid for 45 minutes of that time. I think this discrepancy is patently unfair to teachers working the 6.5 hour day, as well as to the students who don’t get the 45-minute lunch and recess.

• 263. Mia  |  February 22, 2012 at 4:39 pm

  6.5 hours would be ideal. As I said earlier, our school moved to that model this year (9-3:30) and it is loved by teachers, students and parents.

• 264. Chris  |  February 22, 2012 at 4:45 pm

  “And who, besides gold old Chris here, says there are only 2 choices?”

  Strawman. Never said it. I said *if* there is a binary choice I’d choose 7.5, but that I personally don’t think 7.5 is the answer.

  btw, anonymous @261, are you the solitary anonymous posting all of the anti-longer day thoughts?

  Also, I am certainly not trying to shut anyone out of explaining their views, I’m merely exercising my right to mock and deride those who try to assert that NO ONE supports the 7.5 hour day without being a Rahm-plant.

  ” let [] parents have the time with their children that the 14th amendment protects”

  Huh? Cite, please! What interpretation of the 14th A. enshrines a “right” for parents to spend time with their children? Also, exactly how much “time with their children” is prescribed by the 14th A? Can we use that interpretation to force the government provide more and faster mass transit, or more highways, so that parents can get home from work faster to enjoy their “Consitutionally protected” time with their children?

• 265. Chris  |  February 22, 2012 at 4:48 pm

  Uptown Mama: “If teachers are at a school that is currently 5 hrs and 45 min long, it’s because that school’s staff has voted to take (paid) lunch at the end of the day.”

  That’s backward, isn’t it? The contracted schedule is the teacher lunch after dismissal and the school has to vote to opt-out and have the 6.5 hour school day. Or have I misunderstood?

  Agreed that, either way, the increase in the “teacher’s day” is 60 minutes, not 105.

• 266. mom2  |  February 22, 2012 at 5:24 pm

  I am not a Rahm plant and I am OK with a 7.5 hour day. However, we are at a very good school with administration and teachers I trust to make that day appropriate for the age of the child. I would trust that for the younger kids, they would finally get the recess that they usually miss due to our current crazy day where it takes the entire recess period to put on and take off coats. I would trust that lunch would finally be long enough for the younger kids to open their milk and yogurt and eat their sandwich, too. I would trust that if the younger kids need two more breaks in the day for crafts or games or whatever else is needed, they will make it happen so they can learn and not be tired and cranky.

  For the older kids, I would trust that they would find creative use of the extra time to help them learn and explore how the things they are leaning apply to real life.

  Now, maybe some other schools don’t have a group like that and parents are concerned that the work will just be piled on, that they will sit in front of a computer (although I don’t know where all these computers would come from) and the amount of homework would continue at the same level. I am hoping that this is wrong, but I do understand the concerns if some schools are run poorly or can’t find the resources to make it work. The lack of information from CPS about resources does make me crazy.

  By the way, no matter what, the current 5 hour 45 min day is horrible and I’ll be glad to see that go.

• 267. Mia  |  February 22, 2012 at 5:38 pm

  I have one kid in a 8-1:45 RGS (5.75 hours) and one in a 6.5 hour (9-3:30). I couldn’t agree with you more – the 5.75 hour one is awfu. I hate the no recess and the ridiculously short time alloted for lunch (oh and the principal too – I think I’ve mentioned that before ).

  However, the 6.5 hour day is great. Full recess,full lunch. Tired when they get home, but appropriately so, still able to do homework and get in some playtime. Why the extra hour? I’d rather see them get rid of the ridiculous number of “inservice days” – in November they had like 12 days of school total, even go a week more into June, but do I really want my kid there until 4:30?, or starting at 8?

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