CPS Obsessed

163 Comments Add your own

• 1. anonymous  |  January 15, 2012 at 12:39 pm

  Just checking, was that all the elementary schools represented at those high schools or were there others? I am guessing it was too difficult to figure out where Decatur kids go because of the 6th grade thing. But, I was looking for my neighborhood schools and it appeared as if virtually NONE of the kids got into good high schools.

• 2. cpsobsessed  |  January 15, 2012 at 12:49 pm

  Very good questions.

  Decatur will not show up since it doesn’t feed into any freshman classes.

  CPS did not include data for schools that sent 1 child to a school (for privacy reasons) so only 2+ are included.

  In theory, your local schools may have sent 1 child to each SE high school and they won’t show up anywhere.

  But that means so many high schools have a huge range of 1-2 kids from a ton of different elem schools.

  Such a difference from the suburbs…

• 3. another cps mom  |  January 15, 2012 at 1:11 pm

  Where do Mount Greenwood, Kellogg, and Clissold graduates attend, I wonder. Ag School? Jones, WMY, southside SE HSs? Morgan Park? Privates?

• 4. xchicagoteacher  |  January 15, 2012 at 1:25 pm

  This data represent kids who graduated in 2010 when Huberman implemented the tier system and special exceptions for WY, NS, and WP.

• 5. the heckler  |  January 15, 2012 at 2:04 pm

  What year(s) is this for? I don’t see my neighborhood school on here at all and I know more than 1 kid went to some of these last year. And, no private school numbers made available as in how many freshmen were from private schools?

• 6. MarketingMom  |  January 15, 2012 at 3:07 pm

  Thanks for getting this data! This has been something I have been interested in seeing for a long time!

• 7. anotherchicagoparent  |  January 15, 2012 at 4:24 pm

  3 children from Bell also went on to Payton from the 2010 graduating class.It is natural to feel sad about the children who spent so much time with each other being dispersed, but yes most children are definitely ready to move onto other friendships by the end of 8th grade. Through social networking it is easier for children to stay in touch. From my own experience my child has learned so much from meeting teens from other parts of the city.

• 8. Anon  |  January 15, 2012 at 5:38 pm

  @1 While we can’t track Decatur students directly, traditionally they flow into the academic centers at Whitney Young and Taft. It would seem to me that Taft HS kids feeding into Northside are most likely predominately Decatur students who chose Taft.

• 9. HSObsessed  |  January 15, 2012 at 5:39 pm

  This data is for 2011, that is, 8th graders graduating a CPS school in June 2011 and enrolling as freshmen in these CPS high schools in September 2011. My source was kind enough to provide the data for nine high schools that I asked for: Jones, Lane Tech, Lindblom, Lincoln Park, Lake View, Northside, Payton, Von Steuben, and Whitney Young. As CPSO said, the data only includes CPS schools that send two or more 8th graders to the high school’s freshmen class. So, a CPS elementary school that doesn’t show up on the list of one of these high schools means that it sent either one or no graduates. I don’t have any data on private school graduates.

• 10. TwinMom  |  January 15, 2012 at 5:44 pm

  Interesting! So the ENTIRE Bell class went to either NSCP or WY? Wow.

  As for breaking up the kids: FWIW, my Catholic grade school (also K-8) sent the 40 of us to about 7 different high schools (this was not in Chicago), both Catholic and public (there were no “private, non-parochial” high schools at the time in the city I grew up in), all over the city. We didn’t have cell phones or facebook back then, obviously, and still we never gave it a second thought (in fact, I had the choice to attend the school my two best 8th grade friends attended, and I opted to go elsewhere because I liked the school better). Maybe it’s because I had a true choice (unlike the kids applying for SE schools, who are at the mercy of their scores/principals)….but it wasn’t a big deal to me to that most of us went our separate ways after elementary school. And one of my two best 8th grade friends is still a friend today, despite the fact that we attended different high schools in an era without the nearly “constant contact” that kids can have today if they choose.

• 11. cpsobsessed  |  January 15, 2012 at 5:47 pm

  Regarding Bell, it may not nec be alll the gifted kids in those spots. Given the strong showing of other neighborhood schools, I bet some non-gifted kids got in too.
  I feel like a neighbor told me that something like 30-50 percent of the neighborhood kids got in SE high schools.

  Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

• 12. HSObsessed  |  January 15, 2012 at 5:49 pm

  Whoops, sorry, it was 10 high schools. Brooks is on the list as well.

• 13. HSObsessed  |  January 15, 2012 at 5:54 pm

  @10 – I see that 16 from Bell went to NorthSide, and 15 went to Whitney Young. The entire class has about 100 kids.

• 14. HS Mom was cps Mom  |  January 15, 2012 at 5:57 pm

  @4 yes, good point, 2010 was the first year of the tier system. Some schools also had lower grade scales. 2011 and 2012 will likely show different pictures with schools lowering their grading scales, redefinition of tiers and removal of special exceptions.

  It’s also interesting that only around 10 to 20% of SE HS population comes form magnet/SE grade schools.

  Any data on Westinghouse?

• 15. cpsobsessed  |  January 15, 2012 at 8:16 pm

  Please see this clarification on Bell from a parent there: More interesting stuff! If only all schools could report this level of detail. Freedom of Information!!

  The 2011 graduates from Bell had 2 or more students attend the
  following CPS schools:
  Alcott: 2
  Amundsen: 2
  Illinois School for the Deaf: 5
  Jones: 3
  Lakeview: 11
  Lane: 10
  Lincoln Park: 10
  Northside: 13
  Von Steuben: 8
  Payton: 11
  Young: 8

  Bell also had the following 7th grade Academic Center attendees:
  Young: 4
  Lane: 5
  It looks like the Lane and Young numbers from the blog post included
  these AC kids in the totals.

  Bell is a big school with a diverse population including neighborhood,
  gifted and deaf kids so it tends to send students to a wide range of
  schools.

• 16. cpsobsessed  |  January 15, 2012 at 8:29 pm

  For anyone interested, this link has several old photos of CPS high schools, as well as St. Ignatius. Kinda cool…

  http://chuckmanchicagonostalgia.wordpress.com/?s=high+school&searchsubmit=Find+%C2%BB

• 17. HS Mom  |  January 15, 2012 at 8:46 pm

  @9 – the numbers listed for A. Jackson are for 2010. 2011 had more students going to WY and Payton and 1 student to Northside, Most kids from Jackson opt for Whitney Young with the majority of those entering at 7th grade.

• 18. cps alum  |  January 15, 2012 at 9:56 pm

  I’m just wondering where this data came from. Is this 2010 or 2011 data? My local paper publishes this information every Sring for the all neighborhood schools nearby. Last spring they said that the 30 of 8th graders at Edgebrook, 3 were going to NSCP, 7 Lane, 1 Jones, 1 Lincoln Park, and 5 Taft (all others were private or other). On your spreadsheet I found 5 at NSCP, but I couldn’t find any at Lane. I know that kids change their minds, but I don’t think that all 7 kids intent on Lane will end up somewhere else.

  It would be interesting to see which tiers those kids from Bell, Edison, and Hawthorn come from. According to http://www.research.cps.k12.il.us in 2006 Edgebrook (tier 4 neighborhood school) had 9 of 20 eighth graders go to NSCP. Last year they sent 3 of 30.

• 19. anonymous  |  January 15, 2012 at 10:20 pm

  The numbers listed for Bell in the blog also look like 2010′s graduating class.2010′s class had more kids attending Whitney Young than Payton, as Payton accepted fewer freshman in 2010 than they did in 2011.

• 20. TwinMom  |  January 15, 2012 at 11:13 pm

  Ah, stupid me. I was counting the 31 kids in the RGC only. My bad. I don’t know how I could’ve forgotten about the neighborhood program, considering we live across the street from its attendance boundary (and therefore some of our neighbor/friends’ kids go to the neighborhood program). That makes more sense then.

• 21. chicagodads  |  January 16, 2012 at 3:24 am

  In the second document, the list of SE/magnet schools seems incomplete. Where are, for example, Disney, Suder, Sabin, Mayer, and Inter-American? All of them are magnet schools, right? They appear in the first document so why not in the second one?

• 22. HSObsessed  |  January 16, 2012 at 8:44 am

  I’m double checking whether the data’s from 2011 or 2010. I had understood it was 2011, but perhaps it isn’t. I’ll let you know.

• 23. HSObsessed  |  January 16, 2012 at 8:48 am

  @21 – The second grid was reverse-engineered by me manually, by simply selecting the K-8 schools that seemed to have the largest numbers of kids going to these high schools. I could add others, but they would have very low numbers.

• 24. Coldout  |  January 16, 2012 at 9:13 am

  This data can’t be from last year – this year’s hs freshman class. At least 10 kids from Wildwood IB (tier 4) went to Lincoln Park. They are not even on the list.

• 25. also obsessed  |  January 16, 2012 at 10:11 am

  Hmm, I am wondering how accurate the information is. Waters had 6 or 7 go to one of the SEs (lane) and 3-4 go to Lincoln. 1 went to Northside so I understand why that is not published, but I know there were others beside only
  the Von Stuben this list shows.

  Just sayin…..

• 26. cpsobsessed  |  January 16, 2012 at 10:26 am

  I think a key question I have (assuming HSObsessed can find this out from her source) is whether the elem info is self-reported, or if CPS tracks it via student number (which would explain why they do not have private school data.)

  Self-reporting of elem school could lead to more inconsistencies. I also wonder about kids who got in through late rounds of offers?

  Only one way to know, which is to see if the data person will give more details….

• 27. Chicagodads  |  January 16, 2012 at 10:36 am

  HSObsessed, it might be good to clearly state that then in the document. Otherwise it appears that only those schools you list had students who went to SE high schools.

• 28. HS Mom  |  January 16, 2012 at 11:03 am

  @26 – the numbers listed for A. Jackson agree with 2010 after all late rounds, principals discretion and accepted offers. My guess is that this is 2010-2011 enrollment.

  Which, by the way, is some very useful information. It would be interesting to see how this compares to 2011 and really 2012 (being the only year of no change).

• 29. mom  |  January 16, 2012 at 11:06 am

  lots of catholic school grads at lane.

• 30. anonymous  |  January 16, 2012 at 11:16 am

  Like HS Mom said about Jackson, the numbers listed for Bell also match 2010 after all late rounds and PD and after kids turned down schools to go to others.I would love to see the private and parochial numbers sometimes it seems like more than a third of the children are from private, parochial schools in SE high schools.

  Thanks so much for compiling this list for the data heads and sharing.

• 31. anonymous  |  January 16, 2012 at 11:20 am

  Love to see private and parochial numbers, too.

• 32. goingtogermany0693  |  January 16, 2012 at 11:42 am

  @21 Dad, Suder is a relatively new school. I don’t know if they are to capacity (8th grade) as of yet. They opened in the Fall of 2006. I have a friend with children in grades 1st and K and she is active in the school. Perhaps I could ask her if she has info.

• 33. Last year at this time I was an obsessed 8th grade parent...  |  January 16, 2012 at 11:48 am

  Before I got excited about analytics, I see the data is suspect or incomplete – my daughter’s Lincoln Elementary class sent 8 to Payton (but it was right about the 8 going to Northside) this Fall.

• 34. cpsobsessed  |  January 16, 2012 at 11:51 am

  So seems like it may represents last year’s freshmen class. HSO has inquired.
  So one “take-away” would be that results can differ a lot year to year….

  Possibly as a result of the tier system, possibly as the result of the range of possible outcomes in a giant matrix system like this.

  Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

• 35. Last year at this time I was an obsessed 8th grade parent...  |  January 16, 2012 at 12:04 pm

  It would be awesome if this indeed were 2010 (Tier system year 0) and we could then get 2011 as well, as the tiers are adapted to. I think NSCP did have to reach farther to diversify this year. Also, Payton has a weird little “dip year” cycle owing to overenrollment and then compensatory underenrollment at its inception – there are about 250 kids in each class this year, .except. 150 in the class of 2014.

• 36. anonymous  |  January 16, 2012 at 12:24 pm

  Regardless of whether these are 2010 or 2011 numbers, the data appears to show that there are a very limited number of elementary schools sending large percentages of kids to good high schools. When a school has only 1 kid getting into Lane or Payton or whatever, that is shocking. I know there is only a certain number of spots, but it doesn’t bode well for families who didn’t win a ticket to the best performing schools.
  I was surprised though to see how few kids from Disney 1 get into SEHS. They graduate around 200 (maybe a little more, maybe a little less) kids each year, right? But their numbers on the list provided are incredibly small.

• 37. cpsobsessed  |  January 16, 2012 at 12:28 pm

  I agree! It is sort of disheartening to feel like a kid at each school has a long shot at an SE high school. On the other hand, it shows that kids from almost any school seem to have a shot at it, which is encouraging.
  Ultimately, it depends a lot on the kid and a bit on the school, I suspect.

  Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

• 38. Angie  |  January 16, 2012 at 12:35 pm

  FYI, Whitney Young has a deaf program, so the Bell acceptance numbers probably include some of the kids who came from their deaf elementary classes.

  I’m curious about the 32 Ogden students who got into Lincoln Park HS. Ogden used to be a feeder school for LP, which would explain these numbers for previous years. However, in 2011 they already had their own HS. Did so many of the Ogden kids really apply and were accepted to LP SE program instead of staying where they are, or is this a mistake?

• 39. cpsobsessed  |  January 16, 2012 at 12:37 pm

  That is all of lincoln park high school, not just the selective portion – that may help explain it?

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• 40. anonymous  |  January 16, 2012 at 12:41 pm

  Hey northsiders!

  Do you have numbers for Lindblom, King, etc.?

• 41. Angie  |  January 16, 2012 at 12:44 pm

  @39. cpsobsessed: yes, but my point is that Ogden kids don’t get into LP automatically any more. They have to apply and be accepted to get in.

• 42. cpsobsessed  |  January 16, 2012 at 12:49 pm

  But is it not likely that many may get in via the neighborhood program? (I have no idea as I’m not really familiar with that area…)

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• 43. IB&RGC Mom  |  January 16, 2012 at 12:50 pm

  Thank you HSO! This is great to see. And a little scary at the same time.

• 44. cpsobsessed  |  January 16, 2012 at 12:55 pm

  Lindblom is in there.

• 45. RLJulia  |  January 16, 2012 at 1:02 pm

  @37 – Here’s a story that might explain the low enrollment numbers from neighborhood schools – my neighborhood school recently rolled up to include 7th and 8th grade resulting in their now getting ready to graduate the first 8th grade class in decades. Of a class of 66 or so kids, 63 were eligible to take the SEHS exam. Since the school is committed to the kids going to the best high school they can get into, they actively took an initiative to provide kid-specific high school counseling which took about an hour per family (which they did at night and on weekends). Thus all the kids at this school have applied to all the schools people want their kids to go to. While there are plenty of parents savvy enough to manage the multiple application process – there are plenty of test-eligible kids whose family’s do not have the time, information, support etc… to pursue the sehs/ib/etc… application process in a way that would garner results (especially for the schools who require essays interviews etc…). If you look at the tables posted, only a few kids from the school my neighborhood school used to feed to for middle school are represented – but this middle school didn’t provide this sort of in depth support and the parent group wasn’t going to be able to manage the system on their own – even if their kids were test-eilgible. I can’t wait to hear the results – of who goes where and who gets in where.

• 46. Angie  |  January 16, 2012 at 1:03 pm

  @ 42. cpsobsessed: I take it back. Just double-checked the attendance area, and there is still a part of Ogden elementary boundary that has LP as their neighborhood high school. So that would explain it.

• 47. HSObsessed  |  January 16, 2012 at 1:20 pm

  No word yet from my source…will keep you updated. I suspect that I misunderstood and it’s data from 2010 8th graders, but I’ll find out.

  @46 – Yes, part of Ogden K-8’s boundary is within Lincoln Park HS’s enrollment boundary. That combined with the fact that the Ogden 6-8 International Gifted program (formerly “Pre-IB”) basically preps kids for the IB program at LPHS makes it unsurprising that so many Ogden kids go to LPHS. I’d love to know the number of Ogden 8th graders who enroll at Ogden HS. Maybe MFD knows?

  Speaking of LPHS, I read this weekend on the LPHS website that they enroll about 2300 students total, about 75% admitted through their citywide magnet programs (which is about 431 spots per freshman year), and was surprised to see that they got exactly 5,161 applicants last year for those freshman spots.

• 48. RainToday  |  January 16, 2012 at 2:09 pm

  47 – Don’t be surprised. Lots of Tier 4 kids go to LP for the IB and double honors – because their chances of getting into other Good SE high schools is bad.

• 49. anon  |  January 16, 2012 at 3:13 pm

  @Angie I know 1 of the 15 entering Whitney from Bell’s 2010 class was from the deaf department

• 50. IB&RGC Mom  |  January 16, 2012 at 3:35 pm

  The timing on this is great, because I have been struggling with if I should or shouldn’t sign my daughter up for selective prep. If we weren’t in tier 4 she wouldn’t need it as she always gets in the 90′s (even 99′s in the math section some years), but I feel like due to the tiers I have to. If she didn’t need a near perfect score in tier 4 for many of the top SEHS’s I wouldn’t even consider it. She will do well on the ISAT’s no matter what, but unfortunately that may not be good enough.

• 51. cpsobsessed  |  January 16, 2012 at 3:37 pm

  A friend of mine with a daughter in private school said that since ALL the parents were going to do SelectPrep, they hired them to come do the classes at the school. Just part of the edge of the privates….

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• 52. xCPS  |  January 16, 2012 at 4:02 pm

  51 – Groups of students have done that in the past in CPS schools. They each pay but the prep goes on in 1 place at 1 time for all intersted (paying) students.

• 53. RL Julia  |  January 16, 2012 at 4:53 pm

  so much for a fair and equitable selection system.

• 54. Rain  |  January 16, 2012 at 5:05 pm

  53 – there is nothing fair about the system. The test prep doesn’t guarantee admission into anything. Tier and lots of other factors that are getting really boring here. If the City stopped paying pensions to underserving people, there might be money to put towards a few more decent, safe high schools.

• 55. Inquiring minds  |  January 16, 2012 at 6:16 pm

  What I would love to see on this is the # of graduating 8th graders per class. Remember Taft has around 120 graduates a year so their numbers are not as impressive as they seem at first blush.

• 56. Mumof2  |  January 16, 2012 at 7:17 pm

  I too am going to add that I think that this is data from 2010. As I know that in 2011 at least 4 (maybe more) students went to Payton from O.A. Thorp, and that in 2010 although 2 students were accepted to Payton they moved out of the CPS system, and hence did not enroll.

• 57. RLJulia  |  January 16, 2012 at 7:41 pm

  Rain – thanks. As a city employee who doesn’t expect to see her pension (as it will have gone bust long before I will be able to retire), I appreciate your thoughtful, timely solution to the City’s high school quality issues. The CIty’s municipal pension and the teacher’s pension (never mind the police and fireman’s pension and county pension) funds are all completely separate funds governed by their own archaic rules, but, that’s a minor concern- the city could solve all sorts of problem by throwing this money at it.

  Yeah, you are right, test prep doesn’t guarantee anything but apparently it must mean something since it is viable, profitable business in Chicago that if nothing else apparently gives people some peace of mind…. that is apparently worth paying for.

  On a nicer note – Taft does graduate about 120 eighth graders but quite a few of them stay at Taft for the IB program. The sense I get is that if they don’t feel like they have a shot at the SEHS’s they just stay for the IB program at Taft. You’d really have to see what schools Taft’s IB program was pulling from to see for sure.

• 58. HSObsessed  |  January 16, 2012 at 9:31 pm

  I’ve just now added into the reverse-engineered grid the numbers for Disney and Healy. Healy is a neighborhood/magnet cluster school in the Chinatown-ish/Bridgeport area, and it jumped out at me because it sends large numbers of kids to Whitney Young, LPHS, and Lake View. If you have any K-8 schools you’re dying to have me add, you can put in your request.

  I also added a column with the approximate number of 8th grade graduates from each school in 2010, based on the number of 8th graders taking the ISATs in 2010 (no definitive word yet, but I’m going with the assumption this is 2010 data).

• 59. CuriousGirl  |  January 16, 2012 at 9:31 pm

  I too believe that data is 2010, not 2011. NS has 6 Beaubien kids this year, not 8.
  Right too about the Edgebrook comment. Only 2 kids went to NS this year and 0 to Payton, WY or Jones. The numbers to SE schools near Edgebrook, like NS, have been going down dramatically but I don’t know why.
  Thank you for your hard work to pull this together. It’s very informative.

• 60. cpsobsessed  |  January 16, 2012 at 9:33 pm

  Oh yeah, I forgot about the discussion on the chinatown schools. Those tigermoms are clearly directing their kids to certain high schools. If that’s not an endorsement, I don’t know what is…..

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• 61. HSObsessed  |  January 16, 2012 at 9:46 pm

  I had to refresh my memory on the changes from the spring 2010 to the spring 2011 SEHS admissions: For both years, the tier system was in effect. However, the changes that were put in place for the 2011 admissions were that a sixth tier criteria was added (this changed almost nothing, IMHO), the 5% principal discretion was abolished, and the percentage of kids selected by scores alone was reduced from 40% to 30%. Just sharing in case anyone else couldn’t remember the details.

• 62. HSObsessed  |  January 16, 2012 at 9:54 pm

  @60 – Yeah, the other one that caught my eye is Haines, the neighborhood school for Chinatown. They have approximately 63 8th graders, and send double digits to certain schools: 10 to LPHS, 14 to Lake View.

• 63. IB&RGC Mom  |  January 16, 2012 at 10:14 pm

  HSO, I would love to see where all the Wildwood kids go.

• 64. IB&RGC Mom  |  January 16, 2012 at 10:15 pm

  @57 I believe I remember the Taft AC Coordinator telling me that about 40 kids stay.

• 65. HSObsessed  |  January 16, 2012 at 10:31 pm

  @63, I added Wildwood.

  However, I’m signing off for now.

• 66. cpsobsessed  |  January 16, 2012 at 10:32 pm

  Thanks very much HSO.

  Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

• 67. IB&RGC Mom  |  January 16, 2012 at 11:12 pm

  Thank you!

• 68. KCK  |  January 16, 2012 at 11:16 pm

  @58, Healy is a neighborhood/magnet cluster school and it offers a comprehensive gifted program in Grades 1 -8. If kids are from the neighborhood, most likely they are from Tier 2.

• 69. Curious2011  |  January 17, 2012 at 8:20 am

  @cpsobsessed & HSObsessed, What schools send the majority of students to Westinghouse College Prep? Sabin? Pulaski? Ames Middle School??? Any data on Westinghouse???

• 70. HSObsessed  |  January 17, 2012 at 8:34 am

  OK, I have confirmation from my friend that this is indeed data for freshmen enrolled during the 2010-2011 school year. My friend did this by matching the student numbers from the Explore tests taken by freshmen at these high schools that academic year to the ISAT student numbers associated with 8th graders the prior year of 2009-2010. A student here or there might not be captured by this data if for some reason they didn’t take the 8th gr ISAT or the Explore exam, or transferred from the school, etc. But for the most part, this should be correct. A big thank you to my friend for doing this! I’m personally just used to downloading ready made Excel files, and don’t ever think about the work necessary to create the spreadsheets.

• 71. HSObsessed  |  January 17, 2012 at 8:36 am

  @69 — I’m sorry but I had to limit my request, so I’ve published all the HS data I have.

• 72. Mayfair Dad  |  January 17, 2012 at 9:33 am

  Wow, if I’m running the Taft AC I don’t know if I’m proud or pissed. Proud that Taft AC students do so well at SE high school acceptance, pissed that they don’t stay at Taft HS. Maybe with a dynamic new principal this will change.

  The Ogden > LPHS numbers don’t surprise me. The Ogden HS is unproven, LPHS IB and double-honors has a track record. Many Ogden families chose LPHS over Ogden HS.

• 73. Rain2  |  January 17, 2012 at 10:08 am

  63 – Wildwood class of 2011 – 3 Northside (1 was PD), 1 Jones, 2 or 3 Peyton, Lane 9?, Lincoln Park 10?, Taft 8?, 10 Notre Dame 10?, etc. Class of 2011 was 55 kids, 1/3 were outside neighborhood attendance so they went to schools like Shurz, Westinghouse, Senn, etc. The numbers for SE schools have been falling in recent years. 5 SMOW went to NS.

• 74. PTA Southside Mom  |  January 17, 2012 at 11:26 am

  It would be nice if CPS published this data so that parents could make a full informed choice when selecting schools.

• 75. Last year at this time I was an obsessed 8th grade parent...  |  January 17, 2012 at 11:43 am

  Hawthorne is my outlier of choice. If I’m not mistaken, this is a lottery-based admission school, so I’d expect their admissions to NSCP and Payton to be in line with gen. pop. or at least with peers like lottery magnets LaSalle and Disney. They have the second highest “Payton+NSCP” placement rate (22%) next to Edison’s unsurprising first (57%)

  This demonstrates, to me, either:
  (a) they’re not really a random lottery magnet – something else is going on.
  (b) they’ve latched on to some kind of secret sauce (perhaps grade inflation + intensive prep for ISAT and SEHS exam)
  (c) there is a disproportionate and huge number of applicants who would otherwise test into gifted or pre-IB

• 76. ChicagoGawker  |  January 17, 2012 at 11:45 am

  HS Obsessed, Is the number of admissions from which privates/parochials even public information? Is it possible to get this info from your sources?

• 77. CraZy  |  January 17, 2012 at 12:04 pm

  75 what tiers are the students from?

• 78. Unhinged22  |  January 17, 2012 at 12:06 pm

  76 – Not public info — just like their test scores

• 79. Last year at this time I was an obsessed 8th grade parent...  |  January 17, 2012 at 12:16 pm

  77 – Well, it’s in West Lakeview so I’m guessing the proximity lottery is bringing in mostly tier 4′s. The % of low income students is 13% (a lower percent than Lincoln Elementary in Lincoln Park)

• 80. cpsobsessed  |  January 17, 2012 at 12:27 pm

  @75 regarding Hawthorne, my guess is a combo of good students (educated, involved parents) + good admin/teachers (I remember seeing something on their site about recruiting parents for special math tutoring which I thought was great) + it’s possible that in the years when principal discretion was still allowed the school may have chosen to fill open spots with more “motivated” parents and/or students who had proven to be good students elsewhere. This option was open to any school, really, but I think a school like Hawthorne probably had educated parents beating down their door more often than other schools. I have known someone who was highly motivated and seemed to weasel her child in for K several years ago, bypassing the waiting list. My understanding is that with the elimination of princ discretion that this wouldn’t happen any more.

• 81. northsider  |  January 17, 2012 at 12:43 pm

  For @76 or anyone interested:

  From Queen of Angels on the northside, 2011 graduating class:

  Jones College Prep – 1
  Lane Tech – 5
  Northside College Prep – 2
  Payton – 1
  Von Steuben – 1

  Nine remaining students – two to Gordon Tech, two to Loyola Academy, one to Resurrection and four to St. Ignatius College Prep.

  Can you imagine having a graduating class with 19 students? Unreal!

• 82. James  |  January 17, 2012 at 2:30 pm

  Thanks for getting the data, HSObsessed. It’s limited, but interesting nevertheless.

  On the changes that were made from Year 1 of the tier system to Year 2 of the tier system (your post #61), I’m not sure you got all the changes correct. You are right that they added a sixth factor to the mix when determining which tier a particular census tract went into. But, unlike you, I don’t think that was a trivial changes. It certainly had an effect on my tier, for example. You are also correct that they reduced the percentage of kids admitted by pure rank from 40% to 30%. But you’re mistaken that they eliminated principal discretion. It still existed last year. I know of several kids who took a shot at it.

  One other factor that changed that you didn’t mention is that CPS prohibited individual SE HSs from setting a school-specific cutoff in Year 2 of the tier system. In other words, they had to fill 17.5% of the their class from Tier 1 no matter how low the scores were (assuming they were at least over the 650 basic SE cutoff). This had two effects. First, it meant that Tier 1 kids were admitted to schools like Northside and Payton with dramatically lower scores than the year before. Northside’s drop was particularly extreme. In Year 1 of the tier system, its lowest scoring Tier 1 kid scored 850, the school-specific cutoff that Northside had established. In Year 2 of the tier system, after that cutoff had been eliminated, its lowest scoring Tier 1 kid was at 792, a drop of nearly 60 points. The other effect this elimination of cutoff scores had was that it reduced the number of kids from the other three tiers that could be admitted. In Year 1 of the tier system, the spots originally allotted to Tier 1 kids that could not be filled because there weren’t enough Tier 1 kids who scored over the school-specific cutoff were distributed among the other three tiers. This may have amounted to only an additional spot or two, but every spot counts with the stakes like this.

• 83. Chicagodads  |  January 17, 2012 at 2:45 pm

  Could everybody just acknowledge the obvious correlation here between income level and outcomes? Of course a school like Hawthorne with a 13% low income population and whose parent association raises $250K/year largely via parent contributions is going to do better than a school with 50% or higher rate. Is there really any contention about that?

  Also I realize this data gathering is well intentioned, but all this does is set back the nascent neighborhood school revitalization that I am seeing develop and drive parents back into the zero sum game of getting their kid into one of these top performing feeder schools. It is a race to nowhere.

• 84. cpsobsessed  |  January 17, 2012 at 2:59 pm

  @83: I don’t think anyone has every felt it was a secret that income and outcome is correlated. Despite the fact that I keep saying that you can find data on education to prove and point, I believe that data is all consistent.
  Anecdotely, I have heard about Hawthorne’s rigor, test-based teaching (whether good or bad) and other academic efforts that I frankly don’t see in other schools.

  I think a question I am left with is why magnets like LaSalle and Hawthorne have managed to skew so incredibly low on the low-income thing. I suppose the Tier system will help balance this out (while the neighborhood factor in magnets simultaneously unbalances it…..

• 85. 2 great kids  |  January 17, 2012 at 4:57 pm

  My physician’s kids go to Hawthorne. Trust me–he’s not hurting financially. He and his wife are big donors of time and money to the school, as well. We’re talking about some well-off people here, like Tiers 5-10! LOL. Do many low-income families really want to send their kids to a predominately rich school? Sure, their kids test well and could do the work, but let’s think about the peer pressure factor for a second. And let’s think about the commute. You want your kid to “fit in” as best they can and have friends they can hang with afterschool sometimes. Also a long drive or public transit haul can be deal-breakers–not worth the aggravation. This translates to kids in that fairly well-off area applying to that school and others staying closer to home. Mystery solved.

• 86. C'mon  |  January 17, 2012 at 5:00 pm

  85 – It’s free and if it’s safe most people will find a way to send the kids there. Lots of people like freebies and/or they aren’t religious enough to send kids to religious / private schools.

• 87. in the neighborhood  |  January 17, 2012 at 5:09 pm

  “Northside CPS Obsessed” for this post.

• 88. cpsobsessed  |  January 17, 2012 at 5:37 pm

  Hard to write about what I don’t know, eh?
  But I welcome guest posts and of course shared info on any parts of the vast city of close to 700 schools.

  WordPress is free. I encourage a Southside parent to start a relevant blog and I’m happy to share links if one already exists. Knowledge is power.

  Rock on.

  Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

• 89. anonymous  |  January 17, 2012 at 6:27 pm

  @75, there may be something to the whole idea of Hawthorne having a lot of kids who did or would test into gifted or classical schools. I know many families who turned down gifted schools so as to ensure their entire family could attend Hawthorne instead of shleping them around to multiple schools.
  Hawthorne also spends a ton of time investing in reading and writing, has a ton of extra staff devoted to reducing class sizes in those subjects and has very, very few ESL kids. There is also an attitude that, I believe is right on, that kids and parents are going to work every bit as hard as school staff. I am sure there are other schools like it, and I believe these are the reasons for its success rate. That and the sheer number of families making six figures or more.

• 90. HSObsessed  |  January 17, 2012 at 10:36 pm

  @82 James, Thanks, I had forgotten the school-specific cut off change as well.

  Re: the sixth criteria being added in to determine tier level: I would love to know how many census tracts actually changed from one tier to another. I eyeballed the two maps in color showing the tracts before and after the sixth criteria was added, and the changes seemed very few, but I recognize that’s a pretty crude measure.

  In any case, though, because an equal number of students are put into each tier, it doesn’t matter if one tract is reassigned, because another one changes in counterbalance. That is, your tract may have gone from 3 to 4, but another one elsewhere then went up from 4 to 3. Therefore, although individual students may have been affected by a different tier assignment, as a whole, there are still the same number of students in each tier.

• 91. jill  |  January 18, 2012 at 8:16 am

  @84 The tier system cannot work, and this was obvious from the start. Tiers are based on census areas, not verified individual household data. So in northside affluent magnet schools, you get mostly white, affluent families in Tier 4, and almost as many white affluent families from Tiers 2 and 3. These are “gentrifiers” who have moved into neighborhoods like Logan Square or Uptown. As a dataset, more of them apply from these Tiers than the low-income families (to whom the policy is ostensibly directed). More upper income families apply to magnets and SES. Finally, my guess is that few children from Tier 1 apply to these schools because of the distance, and the schools then fill the remainder of the spots with applicants from the other Tiers. In SE, I would venture that Tier 4 kids get almost twice as many spots as other Tiers: first the kids who get in on scores alone are probably mostly Tier 4, then same as above…shampoo, rinse and repeat.

• 92. HS Mom  |  January 18, 2012 at 9:58 am

  @90 – the tiers may have equal number of students but I wonder how this compares to the number of students qualified to apply for selective enrollment. It seems that tier 3 and 4 would have a larger pool of kids to compete with.

• 93. chicago mom  |  January 18, 2012 at 2:10 pm

  I am a parent of an 8th grader in a neighborhood school. I am a wreck about this HS thing. My son is a top student and is taking the SE HS test this weekend. We as parents need to do something to help this system. It is unfair to all. It is nuts that we need to apply to High Schools before we have taken the test for admissions. That leaves 33% out of the equation even before we apply! There is too much pressure for students and parents. This website is great for info but we need to do more. How do you even explain to your child they are a great kid, great student, great person but it just isnt enough. What a sad lesson!

• 94. anon7777777  |  January 18, 2012 at 3:09 pm

  93 – you are so right. It’s especially sad because private schools kids going to private hs (for the most part) and suburban public school kids to not have entrance pressure like city kids do. They get it for college admission.

• 95. JD  |  January 18, 2012 at 11:16 pm

  While I am glad CPSObsessed was able to create these files based on the data provided from CPS, there seems to be (at least on this blog) a much larger appetite for a more comprehensive, historical, and data visualization-friendly view at the varying rates of 8th-to-9th grade progression.

  If you haven’t seen this site yet (http://chicagolobbyists.org), check it out. The guys behind this site take readily available structured data sets from the City of Chicago and built a simple, visually effective app that allows for easy navigation.

  Imagine if the public could view not just one year’s 8th-to-9th progression data but the last 5 years, or 10 years.

  That would be something.

• 96. RL Julia  |  January 19, 2012 at 8:01 am

  72- Mayfair Dad, I think Taft is just as conflicted about this as you. While I have been generally happy and impressed with Taft’s AC program, my son very quickly picked up the idea from other students at the AC (I am hoping this is just in his class) that Taft was regarded as a distant second to Whitney and pretty much a holding tank until they could go somewhere better (read SEHS).

  We sent him to Taft thinking that he would/could go to high school there but it was clear early in 7th grade that my son got more ambitious. I am not sure why there is this morale -we actually chose Taft as his first choice because we thought it would be a better fit for him and because the curriculum was a little different – kids take an art elective, a language and a computer instead of choosing two out of the three. According to him, aside from the kids in the neighborhood, just about everyone else at Taft is there because they didn’t get into Whitney. I doubt this is completely true -although the high transfer numbers to other high schools do bear this idea out. I just hope that this way of thinking doesn’t get worse for Taft now that they have to compete with Lane as well.

• 97. cpsmama  |  January 19, 2012 at 1:14 pm

  Re: Hawthorne’s SEHS success: There is a neighborhood & sibling preference at Hawthorne that allows them to maintain their high test scores & low income rates. They probably only take a handful of true lottery students each year.

  Re: Taft AC: unfortunately, RL Julia, your son is correct. Most attend Taft AC b/c they didn’t get into WY or Lane AC. In my opinion, that is b/c Taft is not an SEHS and WY & Lane are. Also, there is a stark difference b/w some of Taft HS’s neighborhood students and a typical AC or SEHS student. I’m sure students are a bit wary of some of the rougher Taft HS students. As a parent, I was happy that my child didn’t want to stay at Taft for the IB program (even though it is a solid program) b/c there was too much negativity (fights, smoking, cutting school) going on in the HS population. .Plus the “uniform” which is a small but annoying requirement at Taft.

  Like Mayfair Dad, I wonder if a new prinicipal will be able to change Taft’s lstatus for its AC grads.

• 98. RL Julia  |  January 19, 2012 at 2:20 pm

  I totally concur with you about the uniform requirements and the negativity – Its too bad, the school had more going for it than not but it loses students on the not. Maybe if there was more autonomy (like there is at SEHS’s or Lincoln/Ogden etc…) the students would be prouder to go there.

• 99. KD  |  January 19, 2012 at 9:26 pm

  HSO. Thanks much for sharing. Can you add Keller? I think the data looks like this:

  WY 5
  Payton 4
  Jones 4
  Lindblom 2
  Linc Pk 3
  Lane 2

  Approx # 2010 grads = 28.

  I heard Keller had 9 kids go to the WY Academic Center. Anyway to get data on who gets into WYAC?

• 100. HSObsessed  |  January 20, 2012 at 9:47 pm

  @99 – I have added Keller. Those are some long commutes, like to Lane Tech! For those who don’t know Keller, it’s a regional gifted center near 108th and Kedzie, in Mt. Greenwood.

  I don’t have any data for the ACs, and I’ve never seen it posted anywhere, unfortunately.

• 101. Neighborhood Mama  |  January 22, 2012 at 9:19 pm

  Re: Hawthorne’s success, I think it’s worth pointing out that out of 12 CPS schools that I toured, the administration there was the only one that actually talked about standardized tests during the tour. In fact, the tests (DIBELS, ISAT, Scantron, Common Core) were the focus of their own slide during the slideshow. Hawthorne is also very organized about breaking the classes into ability-based groups early on.

• 102. Anon62606  |  January 23, 2012 at 12:37 pm

  Thank you HSObsessed & CPS Obsessed for sharing the information and for the work you’ve put in those spreadsheets (the reverse engineered one especially). Might not be 100 % accurate, but at least it gives me an idea of how historically (for one year) the Elem Schools fed into these SE High Schools.

• 103. CPSDepressed  |  January 23, 2012 at 12:53 pm

  Okay, we’re Tier 4, my son had 3 As and a B last year, 98/90 percentiles on his ISATs, and we just got notice that he has been rejected by the Lincoln Park IB program.

  I think we’re moving to the suburbs.

• 104. Debi  |  January 23, 2012 at 1:05 pm

  We are all in the same boat. We need to have a march in order to get the system changed!

• 105. HS Mom  |  January 23, 2012 at 2:15 pm

  @103 hang in there. Don’t rule out the selective enrollment schools yet. Got my fingers crossed for you.

  @104 unfortunately, people don’t get on board with this until 7th or 8th grade. I’ll join your march though

• 106. 8th gr mom  |  January 23, 2012 at 2:53 pm

  @103 What kind of notice did you get from LP? I didn’t know they sent out “rejections”….

• 107. chicago mom  |  January 23, 2012 at 3:09 pm

  You dont get rejection letter you just dont get interview to that school. We as parents need to help make change without moving to burbs!!!!

• 108. CPSDepressed  |  January 23, 2012 at 3:13 pm

  Yeah, Chicago Mom is right. It was a letter saying he would not get an interview.

  It’s so odd, this idea that only kids in the 99th percentile deserve a good education. I considered fighting with the teacher over the B, but I didn’t want to be That Parent. Now I wish I had been.

  He also took the Catholic test. That’s looking like the best option, because I’m wondering if his scores are even high enough for Lane Tech now.

• 109. chicago mom  |  January 23, 2012 at 3:15 pm

  The entire thing stinks. Tiers, grades etc!!!!!

• 110. 8th gr mom  |  January 23, 2012 at 3:17 pm

  The reason I ask is that we have received two notices re:IB interviews. The first listed the other programs but did not include LP and I assumed we were “out of the running” for LP; the second letter (rec’d Friday) did include LP and we rec’d letter specific to LP interview same day. Go figure….

• 111. chicago mom  |  January 23, 2012 at 3:25 pm

  You got it!! Doesn’t make sense. Nothing does except we all want the best or our kids!!! Let’s MARCH!!!

• 112. mom2  |  January 23, 2012 at 3:43 pm

  cpsdepressed – don’t give up hope. My child had all A’s, but did slightly worse than your son on the ISATs and got into Lane near the bottom of tier 4 during first round. We love Lane!!!
  Also, several friends didn’t get into the IB program at Lincoln Park, but did get into double honors and I believe they are all pretty happy there.
  This is why I am praying that Lakeview High School offers a similar approach (IB and double honors) like they do at Lincoln Park. The IB attracts the families that care about education and that snowballs into a better school because they end up staying for the double honors (which is still quite a step up from the regular neighborhood program).

• 113. HSObsessed  |  January 23, 2012 at 3:53 pm

  @103 – I agree that you shouldn’t give up hope for the SEHS.

  Also, did your son also apply for the LP double honors/AP program? The admission criteria are lower but MANY very bright students attend and are happy there. (That’s my personal plan for my kid: double honors/AP at LPHS.) I that there used to be separate applications for the IB v. the other LP HS programs, but I I recall the AVP saying at the open house that it’s now one consolidated application. If that’s true, then your son could also still get an acceptance from LPHS HH/AP. Good luck.

• 114. HSObsessed  |  January 23, 2012 at 3:55 pm

  ^^^ should read “I THINK that there used to be a separate application… I THINK I recall the AVP saying it’s now one consolidated app…”

• 115. BeenThere2  |  January 23, 2012 at 4:15 pm

  108 – Considering all the CPS nonsense (which will only get worse) investigate the private school option. Many of those schools offer scholarships, advanced classes, etc. Well worth looking into. Hang in there.

• 116. chicago mom  |  January 23, 2012 at 4:16 pm

  We also applied to private and spaces also limited! Does anyone know anything about Odgen or Senn IB HS?

• 117. anonymous  |  January 23, 2012 at 6:43 pm

  Senn has a good, newish principal who is working her rear off. She got rid of the “achievement academy” which housed kids who aged out of 7th and 8th grade, but who couldn’t graduate. Those kids caused a lot of problems. Still, Senn has a lot of gang kids and there are many issues there. Even with the IB program, I wouldn’t send my kid. Maybe in 5 years, but now, no way. Ogden is likely to be better.

• 118. chicago mom  |  January 23, 2012 at 7:25 pm

  Thanks for info.

• 119. IB&RGC Mom  |  January 23, 2012 at 11:01 pm

  CPSdepressed, I cannot get your situation out of my head. Make sure your child knows they did awesome! I am sure you have told them, but let them know others feel the same. Those are scores to be proud of as well as grades to be proud of! Damn CPS. It is so sad that because of the neighborhood you live in you will have a hard time with SE schools.

  My daughter is in the AC at Taft and I have heard and read great things about their IB program. I am happy with the AC so far. Not sure if Taft is an option, but check out the info at…

  http://www.tafths.org/ourpages/auto/2009/9/29/50439368/Why%20Taft%20IB%20Flyer.pdf

  I have read many times on this site it is not where you go, but what you do once you get there! Good luck!

• 120. susan  |  January 24, 2012 at 2:07 am

  #54 Rain. comment about pensions going to undeserving people pretty offensive. people working in the school systems and other government systems pay into a pension fund INSTEAD of social security. pension payments aren’t a merit plan, they are a retirement plan. I don’t believe any of us are denied social security because we are “undeserving” — the only test is whether we paid in enough to qualify, not whether we were really good little worker bees.

• 121. chicago mom  |  January 24, 2012 at 8:51 am

  Do any AC Taft kids stay for HS?

• 122. 2day  |  January 24, 2012 at 9:16 am

  121 – Not too many. They usually go to Lane, private or SE. If Taft IB is your only option, you will be fine. It’s the general classes you don’t want your kid in.

• 123. HS Mom  |  January 24, 2012 at 9:28 am

  @120 – have you read a newspaper lately about the abuses in pension funds, double dipping was considered SOP. These pensions are also funded by taxpayers – you know, the funding that everyone is worried about for our kids education. Not everyone is doing this of course but the abuses are significant.

• 124. cpsobsessed  |  January 24, 2012 at 9:33 am

  Does anyone know why they can’t switch public employees over to social security?
  It seems like that would pacify the masses.

  Pensions have been pretty much phased out in the private sector.

  Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

• 125. CPSDepressed  |  January 24, 2012 at 10:02 am

  Because of the separation of powers between the states and the federal government, state and municipal employees cannot be required to pay into social security. Some have opted in, but others figured that they could offer their employees better benefits for less money by staying out of social security. We all know how well that’s worked! On top of that, employers are required to pay their FICA contributions, but a lot of states and municipalities wanted the ability to defer their pension contributions in bad times, and again, we all know how well that worked.

  And the double-dipping, featherbedding, etc., hasn’t helped.

  All that aside, it’s good to know that so many neighborhood high schools are trying to beef up their programs. The bad news is that they won’t be ready this year. But soon, soon. Right?

• 126. Debi  |  January 24, 2012 at 10:10 am

  Thanks for Taft info

• 127. anonymous  |  January 24, 2012 at 4:36 pm

  HSObsessed, while I’m pleased to see many of the southside SEHS included on this list, I was surprised and disappointed to see King omitted. I know that King is sometimes overlooked, but it can be a great option for strong students who might not be able to get into the most selective SEHS. It has a good variety of programs, many excellent teachers, and a very caring principal.

  Even if it’s too late to add a column for King, can you make sure it gets included in future posts? The increased support for Lindblom on this blog is great and well-deserved, but King deserves a second look, too.

• 128. HSObsessed  |  January 24, 2012 at 10:23 pm

  @127, I will note that for next time, thanks.

• 129. Urban Mommy  |  January 27, 2012 at 9:57 am

  CPS Obsessed – Do you have data regarding which private schools feed to the selective enrollment high schools? I think this is just as interesting and important for parents to know. I assume you got info on all students admitted to SEHS and therefore could backwards engineer this info too.

• 130. cpsobsessed  |  January 27, 2012 at 9:59 am

  I don’t believe that CPS would have this info. They can track CPS students by their student number but they have no way to track private school students. For example, each private school would need to be assigned a tracking number, etc. And frankly, I don’t think that’s on CPS’ radar.

  Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

• 131. Chicago mom  |  January 27, 2012 at 10:10 am

  There is a very high number of anshe meet students getting into Payton. Very high!

• 132. msg  |  January 27, 2012 at 10:48 am

  Taft’s IB program blows. Taft’s AC program blows too. The only thing both these programs have going for them are the STUDENTS they get who are 95% ISATers. That the AC even gets to “lay claim” to those 14 kids who got into NS is bs. I’ll find out from my kid-a Taft AC alum and now at NS-where they went to elementary school. $100 says most, if not all, came from Decatur. (My kid did not but it’s a long story).

  “What does she mean ‘blows’?” you may ask? Their teachers aren’t trained to work with bright kids. The assumption is-in the AC at least-that simply letting their regular high school teachers teach their freshman or sophomore curriculum to younger kids is enough. Now that in and of itself isn’t a bad move, and my kid earned hs credit which allows her to take advanced classes sooner in hs. And she was-admittedly-with hard working, bright, motivated peers (truly why this program is successful at all).

  But it’s not like the teachers are teaching more creatively, or even particularly well (same old, one-size-fits-all approach, emphasis on comprehension rather than analysis or evaluation, the whole Pink Floyd, another brick in the wall vibe). I got the very distinct feeling that the teachers there-regular old, over-burdened CPS teachers-actually didn’t like the AC kids much. Whether that is because these kids can be a pain in the ass to teach (which they can be) or because these kids can have that entitled vibe (and some can) or because they were just poor teachers (and several of them were), I don’t know, but I was unimpressed. BOTH years.

  And their IB program-meh. A few of the AC kids I know that are there are…unimpressed to say the least. In fact, one kid has been told NOT to raise his hand anymore to “give the other kids a chance”. Taft’s principal could care less-believe me. These kids run for student council, aren’t tagging the building, and buoy their test scores-in other words, they don’t need immediate attention, if any. They’ll do fine, right?

  I’ll share one last rant with you. NS is beautiful and has some really great teachers and really great opportunities and some really amazing kids…but holy hell, to hear some of the parents, it’s the pinnacle of their existence (I wrote THEIR, not their kid’s existence). Yes, school is important. Being ready for college is important. Being around like minded kids is important. But the very real, therapist-inducing angst my kid-and my family-went through in 7th grade when a goddamned B came home…is ridiculously out of whack.

• 133. RL Julia  |  January 27, 2012 at 1:22 pm

  Taft AC might blow but it still offers more than many/most elementary schools do in terms of access to more/higher level/better. The teachers have expectations that the kids can do higher level work and there are enough kids to warrant the expectation. At our neighborhood school – as much as I love it, my son wouldn’t have been able to take a language every day, taken Algebra every day or done science experiements in an actual lab.

  Having gone to both Whitney and Lane AC open houses this year, I can assure you that the curriculum is all about accelerated learning – basically your 7th grader can now be in 9th (or at least 8th) grade – its nothing about developmentally appropriate or more creative or deeper its basically just skipping a grade and/or cramming two years into one for the kids who test as being able to handle it.

  As for the NS -Decatur connection – it still seems to be alive and well. My son’s non-Decatur alum friends are all much more interested in Whitney or Lane but all the Decatur kids (who were crushed to have to go to Taft in the first place apparently) seem to prefer NS overall. I don’t know if its because of geography or what but its there.

• 134. EDB  |  January 27, 2012 at 3:34 pm

  @132, I just want to make sure I understand (no snark intended)…Are you saying that of the NS kids from Taft, almost all went to Decatur for elementary? You are not that most of the kids going to NS went to Decatur, right?

• 135. Patricia Haase  |  January 28, 2012 at 5:19 pm

  Having went through the asinine dog and pony show for Decatur (the tester argued with me about my own child’s name) and not getting accepted (surprise! although my child has excelled in everything ever since—hmmm…), and footing the bill for Catholic grade school, we just took the SE exam for HS. Reading here is making me horribly nervous, but I also wonder, as I did eight years ago if I really want to deal with this incompetent corrupt, skewed system anyway. TIERS? Seriously, who was the masochist who thought this crazy nonsense up and how many of my tax dollars did they pilfer? After essentially paying TWICE for eight years, when am I going to get my due?

• 136. chicago mom  |  January 28, 2012 at 5:22 pm

  WE NEED TO MARCH!!!!!!!!!!!

• 137. CPSDepressed  |  January 28, 2012 at 5:44 pm

  @135, I had another of my favorite discussions today with well-intentioned people. “Why aren’t you considering North Side?” they say, “It’s so great! Or Payton! My grandkids loved Payton!”

  Yeah. Well, my kid got a B in 7th grade.

  If the Catholics will take us, we’re crossing over. There’s more good in CPS than many people realize, but the system is so screwed up in so many ways.

• 138. Patricia Haase  |  January 28, 2012 at 6:37 pm

  @137 Okay, CPSDepressed, then I guess here’s the good news: We also talked to Gordon and St. Scholastica (don’t know if you have a boy or a girl) and there IS (self- administered and contained) scholarship money and Gordon let my daughter, who missed the test dates (including today, which was the last day of CPS so we had no choice) both shadow and do a make up test the same day (yesterday–so it has been quite a week!). SO–there are options that may not be as painful as you think. In many ways the Catholic system was a great experience. Small communities and classes, easier 1 on 1 with teachers if need be. Although there is no Utopia. We are considering it as a second option because my daughter wants a more mainstream experience and I don’t want to pay ANYTHING, ANYMORE.

  That said, many of these places’ logistics and locations simply don’t work for me, e.g.- Whitney and Jones What? and Brooks Where? and I am having a big problem in general with having to jump through hoops (again) to send my kid to a decent school. They should all be decent, PLUS. Why are the resources expended to benefit the “smart kids” when the kids that need the help slip through the cracks? And, at the risk of sounding all namby-pamby, i think this does increase social problems, including crime down the road. The “smart kids’ are going to figure it out, yet I want mine to have the best advantages–as do all of you–and I go through the hoop jumping.

  Or MOVE.

• 139. anonymous  |  January 29, 2012 at 3:24 pm

  CPS has the s.e. system dole out so few seats. I’ve never understood why NSCP, WP and Jones have such a low enrollments, have you? I’m sure there is no lack of bright, worthy kids to fill those schools two or three times.

  Why not build them larger?

• 140. anonymous  |  January 29, 2012 at 3:26 pm

  Also, there is an interesting post by Seth Lavin and an interesting comment by U of C.’s Charles Payne to be found on district 299,

• 141. anonymous  |  January 29, 2012 at 6:41 pm

  @139 – You are correct that there are many more bright, worthy kids than there are seats at the schools you mentioned, but I don’t think increasing the student body is the answer. While some students strive at large schools like Lane, many more benefit from the attention, support, and sense of community smaller schools offer.

  I wish I knew what the answer was. You could certainly create more selective enrollment high schools, but I’m not sure that’s the solution. In fact, I think the creation of SEHS and their relatives has contributed significantly to the problem of education inequality in Chicago. They’re great schools — I’ve enjoyed working in one for several years — but I wonder whether they may cause more problems (e.g., sucking the life out of neighborhood schools, creating undue stress for students/families, etc.) than they solve.

• 142. mom2  |  January 29, 2012 at 10:28 pm

  What cps is doing with SE schools right now is certainly not the answer. I agree that they either need many more SE high schools or larger ones like Lane, or they need to get rid of all of them. Either of these options would ultimately improve things. I hate saying this because we love Lane and I have another child in the system that needs a great school to go to in the near future. But I agree with 141 in questioning this whole system right now.

• 143. WasThere2  |  January 30, 2012 at 11:37 am

  137 – We went through all this and more last year. After really thinking through the whole SE nonsense, we opted for private. It is a breath of fresh air. No more waiting for the budget ax to fall on just about everything. Imagine – actual books and equipment for everyone! I still hear all the stuff you do, “why didn’t he go to NS, Lane, Payton, etc.? Blah blah blah

• 144. CPSDepressed  |  January 30, 2012 at 12:25 pm

  CPS has high schools that are almost but not quite there, like Lake View and Mather, that need some love and attention to be real contenders for kids. It would be nice if they could find a way to get that going.

  They are the Charlie Brown Christmas Trees of CPS!

• 145. RL Julia  |  January 30, 2012 at 1:13 pm

  I think they should dismantle the whole select everything but only if they are then willing to offer and support acceleration to those kids who could benefit from and handle it system-wide. The current system is just a big band aid imo.

• 146. CPSDepressed  |  January 30, 2012 at 2:43 pm

  My concern is that if they dismantle the SEHS, then there will be no resources for college-bound students.

  I don’t think every kid should go to college, certainly not at 18, but far more kids have the skills to succeed in college than just the fortunate few that get into the SEHS. This is so damn stressful.

• 147. mom2  |  January 30, 2012 at 3:53 pm

  144, 145 and 146 – I agree! I didn’t mean to imply they should scrap SEHS and not offer rigorous honors level and AP classes at neighborhood high schools. They have to have those programs or most parents I know would leave CPS and the city in a heart beat.

  But, if they did offer those programs and there were no SEHS’s anywhere to be found, those parents that don’t want their children at religious based schools or cannot afford private would send their wonderful kids to their neighborhood school. In the blink of an eye, the neighborhood schools would show vast improvement in test scores.

  Of course, as mentioned before, along with the honors level classes, the schools might need to do something about safety, kids that misbehave that could cause disruptions in learning, etc. They most likely wouldn’t be able to offer spots at places like Lakeview HS to kids from outside of the neighborhood due to overcrowding, etc. It might be too much to ask for.

• 148. northie  |  January 30, 2012 at 6:38 pm

  @145, 147
  I understand the premise of what you are saying, but what happens when you only have a handful of students in a neighborhood highschool who want (or can handle) AP Physics, AP Calculus, etc.? Then the class cannot (or would not) be offered, which would result in some neighborhood schools offering certain classes and others unable to. We’d be right back at the same problem that currently plagues the CPS system and the inequity among neighborhood schools. You coudn’t possibly offer all types of classes, to all students at all highschools.

• 149. anonymouseteacher  |  January 30, 2012 at 7:03 pm

  I actually don’t believe families would send their kids to neighborhood high schools if no SEHS were available nor do I believe neighborhood schools would show improvement in the blink of an eye. I think one or two high schools (like maybe Lakeview or Mather–though Mather is sort of SE anyways), over a very, very long period of time, might slowly improve and attract better students. But overall, I believe families who don’t want to or can’t afford to go private would either sell or rent their places, or if neither were possible, would choose bankruptcy over staying in 99% of neighborhood high schools. Or maybe I am incorrect and am simply thinking of what I’d do. My neighborhood high school has regular police activity, arrests, gang activity, open air drug dealing, shootings, etc, on a regular basis outside and sometimes inside of its wall. Nothing on earth could persuade me to send my children there unless they kicked out all or nearly all of the current students.

• 150. Yep  |  January 30, 2012 at 7:28 pm

  149 you are right. The only schools that offer eveything to everyone are in the suburbs. They also have more high earners and taxpayers.

• 151. mom2  |  January 30, 2012 at 8:06 pm

  149, I guess you are right for many neighborhood high schools. I was sort of speaking from my little world on the north side of the city. I see so many of the neighborhood elementary schools around here being places people actually want to send their kids, that I figured the same would apply to the neighborhood high schools around here. But, my neighborhood high school in Lakeview and so I was thinking in terms of that school. So sad about all of this. It makes me want to scream. I don’t understand why CPS doesn’t feel the need to address this mess.

• 152. Chicago Gawker  |  January 30, 2012 at 9:29 pm

  @149, Can you please elaborate on Mather close to being an SE in terms of quality? I have considered buying in the Mather boundaries, but their test scores are dismal, I mean really low. What am I not seeing?

• 153. Chris  |  January 31, 2012 at 1:44 pm

  ” I don’t understand why CPS doesn’t feel the need to address this mess.”

  Pretend you’re the CPS dictator, with powers exceeding those of any king in history, but a benevolent dictator, concerned about not completely screwing any particular area of the city. What, even in general terms, would you do to “address this mess”? Assume that you can make all of those changes effective day one of next school year, but that you have to live reasonably within current budgets (ie, you can’t decide to build 1000 new schools and hire 10,000 new teachers).

  Now, even if you have a great idea to fix everything, step back from the dictator role and tell us how long it would take to implement that plan in the real world–considering union contracts, political realities, etc, etc.

• 154. ChicagoGawker  |  January 31, 2012 at 5:01 pm

  Hey, the new Tier calculator based on updated census info was due “by January 31, 2012″ per OAE website as linked here. Surprise! The old one is still there. I will call OAE tomorrow for status on the new one. There could be some interesting Tier shifting.

• 155. HS Mom  |  January 31, 2012 at 5:44 pm

  Wow, not only have they managed to wait until all applications were in until they determined tier changes but now they have all test scores in.

• 156. J  |  February 7, 2012 at 9:20 am

  @153 I like the way you think. There is very little if that (thinking) here in the comments.

  This is all very thorny and is made much worse by a large swath of people who either are not involved in the conversation because they are spending their time just trying to keep the lights on or just don’t care. If everyone cared as much as the people here, we’re involved, etc, the problem would be much less severe.

  I am curious to know what people would do? My own thought is to try to bring back the neighborhood school. There is no reason everybody in town should be leaving their neighborhood to go to someone else’s. It is not the full answer – what do you do if your neighborhood school still sucks- but that’s my starting point.

  What say you folks?

• 157. RL Julia  |  February 7, 2012 at 3:45 pm

  I agree.

• 158. Gwen  |  February 8, 2012 at 12:06 am

  At the Jones open house, one of the things the Principal highlighted was that Jones has a diverse student body, in many ways, but also that it’s someone unique in that typically they almost never have two freshmen from the same elementary school, the vast majority of the students are the only ones attending Jones from their school.

• 159. Gwen  |  February 8, 2012 at 12:06 am

  that would be somewhat unique, I better get some sleep.

• 160. Chris  |  February 9, 2012 at 1:28 pm

  J @156: “My own thought is to try to bring back the neighborhood school. There is no reason everybody in town should be leaving their neighborhood to go to someone else’s. It is not the full answer – what do you do if your neighborhood school still sucks- but that’s my starting point.”

  I think it’s a good starting point, too. But even bringing back the neighborhood school wouldn’t really allow (budgetarily) for the total elimination of non-neighborhood schools–there simply isn’t the critical mass in any one school to provide the best education to the top and bottom X% in *every* school. But even that can be accomplished more regionally within the city than it is now–perhaps with added AC-type programs for older elem kids (on both the accelerated *and* remedial ends).

  yeahyeah, mainstreaming, etc,etc, and the reality that virtually anyone with a special needs kid and the means (even if just barely) to move to the burbs does move and would continue to do so. [btw, I think that that fact is at least partly intentional/institutional by CPS--have crap services for special needs kids, get the parents to move, reduce costs of providing services for special needs kids, lather, rinse, repeat]

• 161. mom  |  February 15, 2012 at 6:22 pm

  I’m really surprised that there were zero Waters Elementary kids accepted to Lane Tech. I know the younger grades have higher test scores than the older grades, but still – Zero? (I suppose there was an invisible “one” student accepted).

• 162. cpsobsessed  |  February 15, 2012 at 6:26 pm

  That’s the thing. Waters or any school could have gotten one kid into each SE school and it wouldn’t show up on this list.

  Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

• 163. HS Mom  |  February 15, 2012 at 7:09 pm

  @161 the list would also not reflect if a student received an offer from an SE school but went private or to Lincoln Park or any other host of options that are not SE. The list is based upon enrollment.

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