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	<title>Comments on: Interested in a new Montessori Charter School?</title>
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	<link>http://cpsobsessed.com/2009/07/01/interested-in-a-new-montessori-charter-school/</link>
	<description>Ramblings of a Chicago Mom who spends too much time thinking about school</description>
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		<title>By: CICS_Mom</title>
		<link>http://cpsobsessed.com/2009/07/01/interested-in-a-new-montessori-charter-school/#comment-1160</link>
		<dc:creator>CICS_Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:59:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cpsobsessed.com/?p=462#comment-1160</guid>
		<description>There are some odd comments here, with a lot of people speaking as if from knowledge but not really being right.

-We are at CICS Irving Park  
-It is random lottery with sibling preference
-They are required by law to inform parents of each teacher&#039;s credentials.   I just filled out the form the other day (they sent it to me, I did not request it)
-My son is in kindergarten and already reading 20+ words, speaking spanish and doing first grade math.  They are not even teaching that at the neighborhood school (we started there)
-Yes, it&#039;s selective enrollment but only in the most specific sense (i.e. they don&#039;t just accept anyone)
-They wear uniforms (we love this!)
-They have a positive reinforcement system that rewards kids in a big ceremony monthly for good behavior.  My son is desperate to stay on &quot;green&quot; so he can be rewarded in the monthly &quot;green team&quot; ceremony.
-They have onsite aftercare, extended day, and extended year
-They test the kids regularly and offer differentiated lessons and homework based on the results.
-They have recess daily
-They have an involved parents organization

For us, the benefits of onsite after care, foreign language beginning in kindergarten, longer day and year, and uniforms were huge, especially since the curriculum compares to that of our friends kids in Skinner and Disney II.  We are amazed at what he has learned in two months.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are some odd comments here, with a lot of people speaking as if from knowledge but not really being right.</p>
<p>-We are at CICS Irving Park<br />
-It is random lottery with sibling preference<br />
-They are required by law to inform parents of each teacher&#8217;s credentials.   I just filled out the form the other day (they sent it to me, I did not request it)<br />
-My son is in kindergarten and already reading 20+ words, speaking spanish and doing first grade math.  They are not even teaching that at the neighborhood school (we started there)<br />
-Yes, it&#8217;s selective enrollment but only in the most specific sense (i.e. they don&#8217;t just accept anyone)<br />
-They wear uniforms (we love this!)<br />
-They have a positive reinforcement system that rewards kids in a big ceremony monthly for good behavior.  My son is desperate to stay on &#8220;green&#8221; so he can be rewarded in the monthly &#8220;green team&#8221; ceremony.<br />
-They have onsite aftercare, extended day, and extended year<br />
-They test the kids regularly and offer differentiated lessons and homework based on the results.<br />
-They have recess daily<br />
-They have an involved parents organization</p>
<p>For us, the benefits of onsite after care, foreign language beginning in kindergarten, longer day and year, and uniforms were huge, especially since the curriculum compares to that of our friends kids in Skinner and Disney II.  We are amazed at what he has learned in two months.</p>
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		<title>By: CharterTeacherwannabe</title>
		<link>http://cpsobsessed.com/2009/07/01/interested-in-a-new-montessori-charter-school/#comment-587</link>
		<dc:creator>CharterTeacherwannabe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 02:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cpsobsessed.com/?p=462#comment-587</guid>
		<description>NCLB now REQUIRES teachers at charter schools to be certified. Hires before this took effect were grandfathered in and not fired. I know this because I wanted to teach at a Charter, and with a Ph.D, ten years of college teaching experience, and though the Principal is a friend of mine; he informed me that there was not a chance in h*ll he could hire me. Certification means very little in terms of quality teachers. The Education courses I took as an undergrad drove me from the major. Contentless drivel most of them. One of the advantages of charter schools at their beginning was that they could put innovative think out side the box types in the classroom. Another casualty of NCLB.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NCLB now REQUIRES teachers at charter schools to be certified. Hires before this took effect were grandfathered in and not fired. I know this because I wanted to teach at a Charter, and with a Ph.D, ten years of college teaching experience, and though the Principal is a friend of mine; he informed me that there was not a chance in h*ll he could hire me. Certification means very little in terms of quality teachers. The Education courses I took as an undergrad drove me from the major. Contentless drivel most of them. One of the advantages of charter schools at their beginning was that they could put innovative think out side the box types in the classroom. Another casualty of NCLB.</p>
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		<title>By: rodentface</title>
		<link>http://cpsobsessed.com/2009/07/01/interested-in-a-new-montessori-charter-school/#comment-578</link>
		<dc:creator>rodentface</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 18:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cpsobsessed.com/?p=462#comment-578</guid>
		<description>Charters have tremendous advantages over neighborhood schools so I think it is totally inappropriate to compare the two even if they are in the same neighborhood. They are simply too different to compare because of the selection processes which are both active and passive, intentional and unintentional. And I agree the charter/magnet comparison isn&#039;t quite right either.

Like you, I would love to see a charter simply accept all students within a boundary - then we&#039;d see how the model holds up because it is forced to service everyone like neighborhood schools. (We&#039;ve already seen how selective traditional schools perform - very well.) Charters probably have positives to offer, but with the current setup and such poorly conceived research there&#039;s simply no way to confirm it beyond trusting The Force.

I love your idea of doubling the teachers in a building, too. I bet that would be a real eye opener!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charters have tremendous advantages over neighborhood schools so I think it is totally inappropriate to compare the two even if they are in the same neighborhood. They are simply too different to compare because of the selection processes which are both active and passive, intentional and unintentional. And I agree the charter/magnet comparison isn&#8217;t quite right either.</p>
<p>Like you, I would love to see a charter simply accept all students within a boundary &#8211; then we&#8217;d see how the model holds up because it is forced to service everyone like neighborhood schools. (We&#8217;ve already seen how selective traditional schools perform &#8211; very well.) Charters probably have positives to offer, but with the current setup and such poorly conceived research there&#8217;s simply no way to confirm it beyond trusting The Force.</p>
<p>I love your idea of doubling the teachers in a building, too. I bet that would be a real eye opener!</p>
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		<title>By: cpsobsessed</title>
		<link>http://cpsobsessed.com/2009/07/01/interested-in-a-new-montessori-charter-school/#comment-577</link>
		<dc:creator>cpsobsessed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cpsobsessed.com/?p=462#comment-577</guid>
		<description>Good question!   I think it ends up being comparing apples, oranges, pears, etc across the different school types.  Neighborhood school demos are so dramatically different, I think it&#039;d be worth comparing a charter in a certain neighborhood with the local school.  The data shows that charters do well at helping the lowest-scoring kids so they may be teaching classes at a slower pace to help these kids... so that would make me think they&#039;re going to have a tougher time getting high scores.  However if they can ask kids to leave for behavior problems or very low performance, that gives them an advantage.
See, it&#039;s all so muddy.  Argh.
I wish CPS would set up more &quot;controlled experiments&quot; like taking 2 similar neighborhood schools and sending double the teachers into one of them to see what happens.  Or taking a whole class from a neighborhood school and sending them to CICS for several years to compare them with the other class that stayed local.
The way it is, it&#039;s just so hard to compare.  What do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good question!   I think it ends up being comparing apples, oranges, pears, etc across the different school types.  Neighborhood school demos are so dramatically different, I think it&#8217;d be worth comparing a charter in a certain neighborhood with the local school.  The data shows that charters do well at helping the lowest-scoring kids so they may be teaching classes at a slower pace to help these kids&#8230; so that would make me think they&#8217;re going to have a tougher time getting high scores.  However if they can ask kids to leave for behavior problems or very low performance, that gives them an advantage.<br />
See, it&#8217;s all so muddy.  Argh.<br />
I wish CPS would set up more &#8220;controlled experiments&#8221; like taking 2 similar neighborhood schools and sending double the teachers into one of them to see what happens.  Or taking a whole class from a neighborhood school and sending them to CICS for several years to compare them with the other class that stayed local.<br />
The way it is, it&#8217;s just so hard to compare.  What do you think?</p>
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		<title>By: rodentface</title>
		<link>http://cpsobsessed.com/2009/07/01/interested-in-a-new-montessori-charter-school/#comment-576</link>
		<dc:creator>rodentface</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cpsobsessed.com/?p=462#comment-576</guid>
		<description>Cpsobsessed,

Ahhh, research geeks are good! Since CPS and charters currently compare themselves to neighborhood schools, do you feel that is an appropriate comparison?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cpsobsessed,</p>
<p>Ahhh, research geeks are good! Since CPS and charters currently compare themselves to neighborhood schools, do you feel that is an appropriate comparison?</p>
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		<title>By: cpsobsessed</title>
		<link>http://cpsobsessed.com/2009/07/01/interested-in-a-new-montessori-charter-school/#comment-575</link>
		<dc:creator>cpsobsessed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:45:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cpsobsessed.com/?p=462#comment-575</guid>
		<description>Sorry, lost track of that one.  I&#039;m not used to getting a flow of comments!
I think your points are wise, although reading the CICS site last night it gave data about high school that seemed to suggest they&#039;re doing much better than regular CPS.  I don&#039;t know if I agree that the charters should be compared to the magnets if they focus on at-risk kids.  I see CICS is 93% Af-Am and Hispanic.  Based on socio-economics, there&#039;s no way they could perform as well as magnets that are balanced differently on race and also tend to attract more upper-income families.  (Remember you are talking to a research geek here.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, lost track of that one.  I&#8217;m not used to getting a flow of comments!<br />
I think your points are wise, although reading the CICS site last night it gave data about high school that seemed to suggest they&#8217;re doing much better than regular CPS.  I don&#8217;t know if I agree that the charters should be compared to the magnets if they focus on at-risk kids.  I see CICS is 93% Af-Am and Hispanic.  Based on socio-economics, there&#8217;s no way they could perform as well as magnets that are balanced differently on race and also tend to attract more upper-income families.  (Remember you are talking to a research geek here.)</p>
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		<title>By: to  cpsobsessed</title>
		<link>http://cpsobsessed.com/2009/07/01/interested-in-a-new-montessori-charter-school/#comment-574</link>
		<dc:creator>to  cpsobsessed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 06:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cpsobsessed.com/?p=462#comment-574</guid>
		<description>You never posted my response to the charter lover and I think its unfair. Was the truth too muvh to handle?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You never posted my response to the charter lover and I think its unfair. Was the truth too muvh to handle?</p>
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		<title>By: rodentface</title>
		<link>http://cpsobsessed.com/2009/07/01/interested-in-a-new-montessori-charter-school/#comment-573</link>
		<dc:creator>rodentface</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 14:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cpsobsessed.com/?p=462#comment-573</guid>
		<description>Charter School Veteran,

Re: 1 &amp; 2
Every charter school practices selective enrollment. So do Catholic schools and private schools. Though charter folk and proponents are defensive about this matter, it is in no way a value judgement - it is a plain reality. As I said before a blind, random lottery sounds nice but does not equate to the non-selective nature of neighborhood schools which are required to accept all comers.

A school that accepts every student from the neighborhood who walks in the door is non-selective. A school that does not accept all students is, by definition, selective. We can debate what the outcome of those selection procedures are and how they impact school environment, test scores, student learning, etc., but on the matter of selecting students there is no debate. Charter schools are selective.

Because charters are selective it is inappropriate to compare them to neighborhood schools. Unfortunately, charter operators, politicians, and the media routinely make the mistake of doing so. On the other hand, just because charters are selective does not mean they should be compared to magnets because the selection processes can be quite different.

Some charters require more than an application to be enrolled. Required interviews, mandatory parental trainings, and parent-student contracts come immediately to mind, as do fees and fines. Likewise, selection can and does take place after the school year has started. See my KIPP example above for an obvious illustration.

Even with the presence of a random blind lottery, nearly every charter selects, at a bare minimum, for students with motivated and involved parents.

Re: 4
Yes, some charter schools have wait lists. Some don&#039;t. And The Choir Academy closed not because of declining students but due to their inability to acquire private financing to supplement the tax dollars they received. (The ability to augment public funds with private dollars is one of the reasons a few Noble charters have done quite well -money allows for the ability to attract and retain top teacher talent, invest in incredible facilities and technology, and develop very slick, professional advertising and public relations.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charter School Veteran,</p>
<p>Re: 1 &amp; 2<br />
Every charter school practices selective enrollment. So do Catholic schools and private schools. Though charter folk and proponents are defensive about this matter, it is in no way a value judgement &#8211; it is a plain reality. As I said before a blind, random lottery sounds nice but does not equate to the non-selective nature of neighborhood schools which are required to accept all comers.</p>
<p>A school that accepts every student from the neighborhood who walks in the door is non-selective. A school that does not accept all students is, by definition, selective. We can debate what the outcome of those selection procedures are and how they impact school environment, test scores, student learning, etc., but on the matter of selecting students there is no debate. Charter schools are selective.</p>
<p>Because charters are selective it is inappropriate to compare them to neighborhood schools. Unfortunately, charter operators, politicians, and the media routinely make the mistake of doing so. On the other hand, just because charters are selective does not mean they should be compared to magnets because the selection processes can be quite different.</p>
<p>Some charters require more than an application to be enrolled. Required interviews, mandatory parental trainings, and parent-student contracts come immediately to mind, as do fees and fines. Likewise, selection can and does take place after the school year has started. See my KIPP example above for an obvious illustration.</p>
<p>Even with the presence of a random blind lottery, nearly every charter selects, at a bare minimum, for students with motivated and involved parents.</p>
<p>Re: 4<br />
Yes, some charter schools have wait lists. Some don&#8217;t. And The Choir Academy closed not because of declining students but due to their inability to acquire private financing to supplement the tax dollars they received. (The ability to augment public funds with private dollars is one of the reasons a few Noble charters have done quite well -money allows for the ability to attract and retain top teacher talent, invest in incredible facilities and technology, and develop very slick, professional advertising and public relations.)</p>
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		<title>By: Charter School Veteran</title>
		<link>http://cpsobsessed.com/2009/07/01/interested-in-a-new-montessori-charter-school/#comment-572</link>
		<dc:creator>Charter School Veteran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:28:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cpsobsessed.com/?p=462#comment-572</guid>
		<description>Just one other thing...I am by no means a Montessori expert. I&#039;ve been researching a school for my child, and Montessori seems to be a good fit. I have a friend who has opened a private Montessori school in the near suburbs, and my conversations with her have really increased my knowledge about how the process works. I&#039;d like to observe some classes to see for myself, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just one other thing&#8230;I am by no means a Montessori expert. I&#8217;ve been researching a school for my child, and Montessori seems to be a good fit. I have a friend who has opened a private Montessori school in the near suburbs, and my conversations with her have really increased my knowledge about how the process works. I&#8217;d like to observe some classes to see for myself, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Charter School Veteran</title>
		<link>http://cpsobsessed.com/2009/07/01/interested-in-a-new-montessori-charter-school/#comment-571</link>
		<dc:creator>Charter School Veteran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cpsobsessed.com/?p=462#comment-571</guid>
		<description>There is a bit of misinformation on this thread. I just want clear a few things up:

1. Charters cannot (and should not) be compared to magnet schools. Magnet schools can selectively enroll students. Charters cannot do this in the least bit. 

2. Charters admit students based upon the submission of an application and the result of random, blind lottery. The only preference that is given is for the siblings of currently enrolled students.

3. Charters in Chicago tend to focus on providing choices and services for low-income families for the simple fact that these families don&#039;t often have the level of education choice that other families do. 

4. Most charter schools have a HUGE waitlist. The only exception to that to my knowledge is the Choir Academy, which is closing this year due to dwindling enrollment. 

5. The suggestion that Montessori classrooms lack structure is patently false. Montessori classrooms have schedules. They have work and assignments. The biggest difference is that students are taught at a level they can understand...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a bit of misinformation on this thread. I just want clear a few things up:</p>
<p>1. Charters cannot (and should not) be compared to magnet schools. Magnet schools can selectively enroll students. Charters cannot do this in the least bit. </p>
<p>2. Charters admit students based upon the submission of an application and the result of random, blind lottery. The only preference that is given is for the siblings of currently enrolled students.</p>
<p>3. Charters in Chicago tend to focus on providing choices and services for low-income families for the simple fact that these families don&#8217;t often have the level of education choice that other families do. </p>
<p>4. Most charter schools have a HUGE waitlist. The only exception to that to my knowledge is the Choir Academy, which is closing this year due to dwindling enrollment. </p>
<p>5. The suggestion that Montessori classrooms lack structure is patently false. Montessori classrooms have schedules. They have work and assignments. The biggest difference is that students are taught at a level they can understand&#8230;</p>
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